How to make a non partial Governing body in paintball today

[RRfireblade]

But..... how much would you pay to play at a local court ?


You asked if the sport was a viable product , right now it's not.

No one but paintball players care to watch it on TV and besides that it doesn't do 'TV' well at all. Even if your a Speed/X ball player you can't tell a dang thing on TV. The commentators and on screen graphics while neat and gimmiky don't actually help at all unless you just like to have the announcers tell you what just happend a few seconds ago. You can't see the paint , you can't see whos getting shot at , you can't tell who been shot.

Add to that that the vast majority of paintball players are rogue woodsballers who happen to think speedball is a stupid waste of paint and thier guns are a rediculous waste of money.

'Bout sum it up ?

[coreyander]

I think that most of you are discussing your view of paitnball from how it is where you live. Around here DFW, paintball is not just hardcore woodsballers. The tourney scene is alive and well.

As a matter of fact our local field that used to be strictly woods and rec is putting up 4 airball fields running at all times...nightball and friggen stadium lights.

[RRfireblade]

I think that most of you are discussing your view of paitnball from how it is where you live. Around here DFW, paintball is not just hardcore woodsballers. The tourney scene is alive and well.

As a matter of fact our local field that used to be strictly woods and rec is putting up 4 airball fields running at all times...nightball and friggen stadium lights.

Dude , we have World Cup here. And some of the hardest core ballers considering Pro teams come here all the time 'cause of the good practice weather year round.

I'm talking about national statistics that are a matter of fact.

[Aggravated Assault]

You asked if the sport was a viable product , right now it's not.

No one but paintball players care to watch it on TV and besides that it doesn't do 'TV' well at all. Even if your a Speed/X ball player you can't tell a dang thing on TV. The commentators and on screen graphics while neat and gimmiky don't actually help at all unless you just like to have the announcers tell you what just happend a few seconds ago. You can't see the paint , you can't see whos getting shot at , you can't tell who been shot.

Ok, thats a fair observation. Since it may not be not a good product for the fact that it dosen't translate to good tv, the alternative is make it into one or conclude that It will always struggle when put on tv.

Myself I have always wondered how to overcome what you just said: can't see the paint, who's getting shot, etc. This is way out in left field, but didn't someone try and make glowing paintballs once?

Add to that that the vast majority of paintball players are rogue woodsballers who happen to think speedball is a stupid waste of paint and thier guns are a rediculous waste of money.

'Bout sum it up ?

I just can't agree with that statement. Some may think along those lines, but I would guess a majority are at least a little intrigued by tournament ball, the equipment and such. There's no doubt some fine athletetes too, I think there's respect for that also.

But, lets run with your quote. I would take it to mean the actual format just isn't appealing to the avarage player. What could be done with that, short of comming up with a new game format?

[SlartyBartFast]

Go back to first question. "Do we have a product that [Non-tournament playing public] wants to buy...and if not, why not?"

It may be your first question. But it's the WRONG question.

Which came first? Profesional baseball and basketball or grassroots organisations and minor leagues?

If minor leagues lost interest and participation, where would professional sports end up?

Pathetically, players who are even less talented in paintball than a highschool or even pick-up team (heck, 99% of paintball "teams" are no more than friends playing regular pick-up games) in many mainstream sports are already whining about lack of sponsorship and support in TINY local markets.

How much help and sponsorship do kids get to make their way through little league? NONE!

But every wanna-bee paintball player with matching clothing goes on as if it's their God-given manifest destiny to play their game for free and that every trounamenet MUST have tens of thousands of dollars in prizes.

Then, people want TV coverage and "profesional" status. But, look at the rosters of the "profesional" series. What percentage is simply whomever can simply afford to pay entry?

Many of the dreamers who feel that paintball is entitled to the same place in fame as the likes of Xgames sports ignore the realities of those very sports. Paintball can't hold a candle to the level of organisation and devotion at the LOWER LEVELS as those other sports. Nor do the dreamers want to put in the time and effort that those sports put in to become what they are at the highest levels.

Think about all that for a while, and the answer as to why paintball is not fit for the "big time" will be VERY clear.

[Lohman446]

I heard this discussion somewhere else, and perhaps can add something.

Why does hockey not translate to TV well, and basketball not as well as football or baseball.

In football and baseball there are "programmed" in breaks in the action, where the commentators can help those watching who don't "know" the game to understand it and be excited about it. Even Nascar is about hours of boredom for seconds of excitement.

There are no such breaks in paintball, and we have seen from experience that generally, sports without it do not fair well on television.

[SlartyBartFast]

I'm not sure this is the biggest hurdle. Maybe to the local field trying to survive it's a big problem nowadays - but I would think it would be a minor one at best in the context of a Leauge or governing body.

:rofl:
Without fields, how can you have leagues?

The reason you can play baseball, football, soccer, tennis and other sports for "free" is because the tax dollars of everyone in your community build and maintain the fields and courts.

Leagues that play on non-public fields, depend HEAVILY on the profitability of the field as a business. For example, an indoor soccer field charges 250$ and hour for use of the field. Leagues have to pay that to continue to exist. If the business folds, there's no more venue for indoor soccer.

As a competitive golfer how healthy the sport would be if private golf courses couldn't turn a profit (or otherwise generate enough revenue) and stay open.

[SlartyBartFast]

Why does hockey not translate to TV well, and basketball not as well as football or baseball.

Hockey has nothing to do with it. It's the American audience that needed the glowing puck. Does fine up here. Baseball has a tiny draw on TV here.

There are no such breaks in paintball, and we have seen from experience that generally, sports without it do not fair well on television.

Each of the other games you mentioned has INFINITELY more time between breaks than the length of an entire speedball game.

Trying to discuss the presentability of paintball on TV is putting the cart before the horse.

You need to build the product, then audience before you'll earn your place on TV.

[Aggravated Assault]

Oh, where to start

This is as good as anyplace....

It may be your first question. But it's the WRONG question.

Which came first? Profesional baseball and basketball or grassroots organisations and minor leagues?

If minor leagues lost interest and participation, where would professional sports end up?

OK, bingo, you get the prize. I am not trying to imply paintball HAS to be a certain way - I want to look at the WHY of what is our problem. And I think there are a lot of whys. To make any "Non partial governing body" we got to examine our failings.

I think there IS too much of the "god given Right" to sponsorship, big dollars, etc. But that didn't just happen overnight.



/to be continued...

[Aggravated Assault]

But every wanna-bee paintball player with matching clothing goes on as if it's their God-given manifest destiny to play their game for free and that every trounamenet MUST have tens of thousands of dollars in prizes.

Part of that is what the sport in general has put up with, allowed and even encouraged, the average young tourney player to act.

It's just greedy paintballers who think that their hobby has a manifest destiny to become professional and pay out thousands of dollars eacha nd every tournament.

I hate the term "greedy". It's thrown aroud nearly as much as the term "nazi". What's greedy about wanting to win some prize money if you think you got the skills? Jeez, my father-in-law shoots darts and goes to tourneys. Is that greedy in your logic? Players spend a lot of their money (or their parents money ) on gear and equipment compared to some sports. Not to mention other costs. Not all tourneys, or many I woud say, pay out tens of thousands of dollars - and the ones that do usually have huge entry fees vs. potential payoff.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the idea of paintball marketing itself in a way to attract people, by whatever means are good for the sport.

How much help and sponsorship do kids get to make their way through little league? NONE!

Wrong. I'll tell, you as a buisness owner, in this neck of the woods our youth baseball wouldn't do crap w/o the help of the buisnesses sponsoring the leauge. You'll see their signs and banners in the outfield when you come to our diamond. You'll see them on the uniforms. We put up the fencing. Repair the fields. Buy needed equipment. Supply labor.

Whats different about wanting competitive paintball to be well sponsored, on whatever level.


Anyway, I'm not sure what you are getting at besides competitive paintball should throw in the towel.

Not a rip, just an observation.

[Chronobreak]

so what its coming down to thus far..

what is the goal of paintball?

or is the lack of a common or desired one the problem?
(most people seem to be fine or more than fine with the current status)


there is defienetely room for competive paintball,...alot of people like to be good at things and get rewards for doing so. but yes i agree unles your EXCEPTIONALY good you shouldnt get great rewards for mediorce accomplishments.

$$ rewards and prizes cost $$ and fields generaly dont clear much on a tournament for the most part.

and sponsors have to want to be attached to the "product" or "game" of paintball to associate

[Aggravated Assault]

I think the best thing as a goal for paintball would be a dominant governing body for competitave paintball, encompassing leauges w/ several different (skill) levels of play, divided buy local, regional and national levels.

I think racing is a good comparson again. There is racing under many divisions at the more local level, you have bigger regional events and "championship" events and touring national series. Points system on both local, regional, and national.

$$ rewards and prizes cost $$ and fields generaly dont clear much on a tournament for the most part.

A lot of the tourneys I see at the more local level dont have a ton of prizes. I also feel if a place puts on a good cheap tourney for trophys, people will play. I've seen it. I don't really buy into the line of thinking there has to be tons of goodies no matter what for a team to even show up.

[Aggravated Assault]

well, even tho this thread fizzled, I guess I'll finish my thoughts anyway.


The thread was HOW to make a NPGB in paintabll today. Of course to do that there has to be goals set and problems solved. Still at the end of the day you have to implement them. What factors would be pushing against implementing them? That's where I was really hoping the discussion would go. Actually, other threads had some posts very revelant to this very question.

heres one...

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=204936

Face it, as much as someone might want paintball to go back to the old days when it wasn't as mainstream, still below almost everyones radar, it can't. The notion of a pure grassroots ippa kind of players for players association is possibly unrealistic now. It's a multi-multi-million dollar industry with millions of players. It's on TV like it or not. How do you put the cat back in the bag? I don't think you can.

If a fledgling NPGB for paintball were to have any chance to thrive or even survive, I think it would have to fight fire with fire. By being able to somehow package and promote paintball better, potentially the sponsor support would be better. Then implement change.

How bout' the possibility of a grassroots organization forming today? How would it garner support from the players and industry of today?

Or are we just stuck with our "pros" shooting the other team from the deadbox....

[RRfireblade]

In a nut shell , someone just has to step up and do it.

This is not directed at anyone inparticular BUT more and more often (AO especially) we are inundated with a TON of " This sucks " and " That sucks " and "Someone needs to... " and "Someone should..."

Well yeah , sure.

I'm feelin' ya.

So do it. Sounds simple cause it is , but the biggest moaners and whiners never step up and do a dang thing. It's always 'our' problem but someone elses responsibility. If you collectively don't like the way something is Man up and start the ball rolling yourself.

It's really that simple.

I'm pretty into pump play right now , a few years ago I got together with some other people feeling the same way. We went to a local feild , talked the owner into giving a pump thing a shot , put the word out and got a pretty wide spread and diverse group together and set up our first FPC (Florida Pump Chumps) pump meet. We spoke with manufacturers and got donations and prizes to give away. Some of it came from other players. It started out with like 5-6 people and now we regularly bring in 30 plus almost every month we do it. I didn't know more than 1 or 2 of those people at the start and now our group ranges from Miami to Georgia. If we wanted to take it farther , I'm sure we could but for right now it a good thing as it is. Who knows in the future.

I realize that is on a much smaller scale than some of the issues people are having in other areas but the idea and theory is the same. Someone has to take the intiative and just do it , what ever it takes.

Or not.

[d4m4don3]

Check these guys out. This tournament pretty much rules out the rt valve, but a classic mag would be pretty dangerous here.
They stepped up and got rid of a lot of the controversial tech that people are whining about. If they had that here in California I'd participate.

http://www.limitedtech.com/