Ramping...

[geekwarrior]

AGD is closing the doors?
What is the difference of the Xvalve vs an rt valve?
When is AGD going to come out with...?
When is tag going to release...?
Ramping...
Ion...
Smart parts this and that...

you forgot the hair trigger

[REDRT]

you forgot the hair trigger

How could I forget that one

[Beemer]

Can someone please help me here. I need to know what is the difference between Ramping and full auto?

The only difference is the word, ramping allows you to avoid using those two dirty four letter words. You can say ramping but dont ever say......

[Lohman446]

The only difference is the word, ramping allows you to avoid using those two dirty four letter words. You can say ramping but dont ever say......

One could make the argument that ramping takes into consideration possible accidental discharge in the staging area and outside of masks - the first pull only allows one where full auto allows... well until the trigger is released. Thats assuming the best of those involved though, which one is hard pressed to do

[Beemer]

Thats another issue all together. Players are not taught how to make their guns safe the right way to begin with. A barrel bag is just a band aid for doing it the wrong way. Dont look around to much. The only thing between your eyes and a ball is a barrel cover.

Folks I know from the real range dont want to hang around to long when they see how guns arent made safe the right way in a safe area.

[K Wolf]

wish it would go away

I wish ramping would go away. I don't object to the high rates of fire. I think ramping is a poor subtitute for full auto fire. Why is full auto fire such a taboo while the same rate of fire is sustainable through ramping? Some may not be willing to admit it, but paintball IS mock combat lite. "Laning" is a version of suppressive fire. Why not have full auto fire available? How about tournies with stock, pump, semi, and full auto class competition?

The odd thing is, that while the makers of ramping markers do their best to insist that ramping is semiauto, the U.S. BATFE would consider any firearm with ramping to be a machinegun.

BTW, I am well aware that paintball and firearms are very different (no 0.33 MOA shots at 1,000 yards in paintball). It is just idiotic to ignore the similarities between the two. When I'm on the paintball field, I am not trying to "tag" my opponents, I am trying to "kill" them while avoiding being "killed". What makes it fun, is that it has no consequenses in real life.

[SpitFire1299]

Full auto is 1 pull, and endless shooting. If you get trigger stick, or something hits the trigger.. the gun will constantly shoot, and thats not safe at all. Ramping requires 3 pulls in under 1 second before it can be activated. It immediatley shuts down once your finger is let off, and you will be required to activate it again if you wait to long.

[K Wolf]

safety aspects

Full auto is 1 pull, and endless shooting. If you get trigger stick, or something hits the trigger.. the gun will constantly shoot, and thats not safe at all.

Trigger stick should not be an issue in a correctly designed marker. Any marker will fire at least once if the trigger is hit/pressed by something. Safe gun handling practices should help avoid negligent discharges. The huge double triggers and equally huge trigger guards, that are popular/needed to sustain high ROF in non full auto markers, greatly increase the chances of foreign objects presseing the trigger. Double triggers and huge trigger guards would not be needed on a full auto marker.

Ramping requires 3 pulls in under 1 second before it can be activated. It immediatley shuts down once your finger is let off, and you will be required to activate it again if you wait to long.

In your example, a ramping marker, capped to 15 bps, would continue to fire 5 balls in the 1/3 second it takes for the marker to detect you are not pulling the trigger at 3 bps.
A full auto marker would stop firing within the one cycle of the bolt. So it might fire one more ball after trigger release, depending on exactly when in the firing cycle the trigger was released.

I know which one I consider safer.


Karl

[peewee]

The two places that I see impact with ramping.
First Off the break it = twice as much paint in the air, lanes are deathzones unless your a chipmunk on crack.

Second the ability to supply your own "effective" cover fire when moving.

[mobsterboy]

The two places that I see impact with ramping.
First Off the break it = twice as much paint in the air, lanes are deathzones unless your a chipmunk on crack.

Second the ability to supply your own "effective" cover fire when moving.

So what good is team work if every man is his own team?

All I know is the blame goes completely back on the player for everything when theres just true semi. Bonus Balling? It was the players fault, not the ramping ran away. Speeds? Psh, well, if you can shoot faster than everyone else in true semi, you SHOULD have that upperhand, if you cant, get over it and practice. Suckiness? You are the issue, not your marker(...well, thats always the case but anyways...) Someone shot while they were moving? You get the idea...If i really need to elaborate, i will, but If you look at how paintball was before and after ramping, the only people who like ramping now are the ones that sucked at paintball before, and suck worse now (or are on a sponsored team and dont really care how they shoot cuz they were good before)

[REDRT]

Evolution of the game. Embrace it or just shut up already!

[Lohman446]

To some degree it is a limiting of what factors are allowed to compete, what factors are allowed to "evolve" if one would. Now, I know the argument is going to be that the examples I list are the exact reverse, the mechanical limitation rather than skill limiting, but I am going to put forward the argument they are not as far removed as you would think.

Nascar could have been about who could build the fastest car. To some degree it still is, but when Nascar put in rules about air flow, fuel tank size, restrictor plates, etc. it was to make the competition about the skill of the driver rather than about the car.

I already know where I have blurred a line. I realize ramping takes away a skill and replaces it with equipment. I still stand by the example for this reason. Allowing it allows more emphasis to be placed on other skills in the game rather than who can move there fingers the quickest.

That being said, I fully comprehend the arguments to disallow ramping. Regardless it all comes down to a simple base disagreement on if the skill of shooting fast should be a skillset tested in paintball. I will give those that disagree with its allowance the argument of safety - there are argument that can be made to question the safety on the field of ramping. That being said I think they do not hold up to scrutiny in a world where one is capable of achieving (supposedly) the same speed without ramping.

I would disagree that it is ramping that is ruining the game. Despite my final agreement that today, tournament speedball is "being ruined" and rec ball is not far behind.

[RRfireblade]

To some degree it is a limiting of what factors are allowed to compete, what factors are allowed to "evolve" if one would. Now, I know the argument is going to be that the examples I list are the exact reverse, the mechanical limitation rather than skill limiting, but I am going to put forward the argument they are not as far removed as you would think.

Nascar could have been about who could build the fastest car. To some degree it still is, but when Nascar put in rules about air flow, fuel tank size, restrictor plates, etc. it was to make the competition about the skill of the driver rather than about the car.

I already know where I have blurred a line. I realize ramping takes away a skill and replaces it with equipment. I still stand by the example for this reason. Allowing it allows more emphasis to be placed on other skills in the game rather than who can move there fingers the quickest.

That being said, I fully comprehend the arguments to disallow ramping. Regardless it all comes down to a simple base disagreement on if the skill of shooting fast should be a skillset tested in paintball. I will give those that disagree with its allowance the argument of safety - there are argument that can be made to question the safety on the field of ramping. That being said I think they do not hold up to scrutiny in a world where one is capable of achieving (supposedly) the same speed without ramping.

I would disagree that it is ramping that is ruining the game. Despite my final agreement that today, tournament speedball is "being ruined" and rec ball is not far behind.

The NASCAR example is heavily flawed however. They're trying to make the equiptment equal for all but not restrictive of the drivers ability.

Your example would be more like making the cars all automatic because some of the drivers can't shift as well as others , which only hurts the drivers with better shifting skill.

Or mandating power steering cause some drivers arms aren't as strong as others.

Catering to the lowerest common denominator in a supposed 'competition' is a sad joke played on everyone involved.

I guess the next logical 'Evolution' of the game is to limit the time your allowed to make a bunker off the break so fast feet isn't an advantage....

Then we can add glass panels to all the bunkers so being a fast snap shooter isn't an advantage....

Of course the next step would be no talking on the feild so fast communication isn't an advantage....

I guess the future of paintball is....... Chess.

[Lohman446]

I vote we just flip a coin to decide if your eliminated or not :) and which team got the flag pull. It would solve our cheating issues too. I still say though, your intentionally missing the positive side of allowing ramping. Then again, I assume there is one

[RRfireblade]

I vote we just flip a coin to decide if your eliminated or not :) and which team got the flag pull. It would solve our cheating issues too. I still say though, your intentionally missing the positive side of allowing ramping. Then again, I assume there is one

Honestly I do see a tiny positive side.... tiny. I still feel and really don't see any way that it's not more of a limit of skill than anything else.

Be honest , really be honest , when you watch a game of younger players playing speed/X/air ball and most of the team is shooting 15+ literally with on finger on the trigger ( I see it all the time) , how could that possibly be 'equal' to someone capable of that on a semi ?

If that kid and concievably the rest of his team was shooting 5 instead of 15 would you not agree that no matter how great his others skills , he'd be at a disadvantage ?

Of course there are times when it;s not critical BUT there are plenty of times when it is.

Last point then , I had a kid on a team in the past that could easily , regulary and consistantly walk 12-13 bps while on a pretty fast run , not dead run but hauling. I'm not to shabby at it myself. I've only seen a handfull of people EVER that can do what he could on the move. It's was a huge advantage to have an extra gun in the air raining paint AND taking an offensive bunker. Imagine 2 doing it.

Now imagine , wait.... just look , now anyone can do it in fact now at 15+.

That's my main point.

I said it earlier , Ramp/Auto/PSP is not an 'evolution' of the sport. It just isn't. No one in the world sat down and said,

"Hey , you know what would make the sport more competitve and better for TV and spectator? Automatic firing ! !"

Didn't happen that way.

What happened was "Hey , cheating is way out of control.We can't stop it , we can;t hardly even make a dent no matter what we do. It's a problem that is being CREATED and SUPPORTED by the manufactuers AND the sponsers where we get all our revenue so we can possibly do anything to them so.... now what. If they're going to cheat with ROF , we'll let everyone cheat in the same way and focus our efforts elsewhere."

Actually they 'thought' it'd be easy hear a 15+ cheater amongst the =/- 15er's and they were Soooooo wrong.

People are now getting caught on , occasion , shooting into the 20's.