Its hitting the fan over at the guild..

[CoolHand]

. . . . . Airsmiths.... what would you do if your supplier decided to do this to you say 5% of your orders from them (not deliver stock, not communicate, generally be shady, etc.)? You know damn well you'd find another supplier. . . . . .

Actually, I've had this happen to me on several occasions. Anodizers and board suppliers seem to be wholly unable to do what they say they will, which in turn makes it nearly impossible for me to do what I say I will.

All told, i've used eight (8) different anodizers and not one did everything right. Some did most things right, some did nothing right. I am now down to two new places which I have not tried yet. I'm hoping they don't disappoint me.

Sometimes, there just isn't any other supplier. The blood would run out of your faces if you had lost the kind of coin I have lost to crappy suppliers. But, I can't do anything to fix it, and to have a hissy fit in public is not only pointless, but would also just serve to make a bigger *** out of me.

You want to know the only two companies who've not screwed me outright in the PB business? AGD and Smart Parts. NPS is a close third because they only screwed me via a small clerical error and only once. Every other supplier I have worked with is a tie for last for one form of crappiness or another.

In business, the little guy takes it in the *** on a regular basis. in the PB business, sometimes that bleeds over to the customers too.

Sorry guys, sometimes even my ample *** isn't enough fodder to satisfy the fates.

[Pneumagger]

I gotta be a little fanboi here and go with the GBA reccomendation. For me, they're almost local, fast turnaround, questions answered within a day, and they always seem to add a little extra to everything. They are really affordable too.

I wish my work would let me sneack down anodize in thier vats though. Type III milspec, pools big enough to anodize a car, lastest and greatest, choice of silver black or chemcoat. :drools:

[Pneumagger]

Off topic...

I wonder what GBA would charge the US to do a "HATE" anodize atomic bomb casing. Or even just a rasta trifade with Leaf tattoos.

[shives007]

I have held my tongue...

I'm not going to name any names in this post, because enough mud has been slung at various people already.

As far as the dealings in custom work I have had...

1) I am very patient, so I don't push deadlines unless you give them to me. If you give me a deadline, I expect it to be reasonably kept. Things will come up, and a good explaination will float me for a while. I understand that sometimes you may have to bump my project to do a few quickie jobs to bring in some ready cash. Be honest, I'll respect that. You have to earn a living to be able to do my stuff.

2) Communication is key. I know taking time to answer emails takes time away from other work. I don't expect you to be sitting at your keyboard typing replies, but if I don't hear anything, I might start to assume the worst.

3) Estimate long. If you tell me it is going to take a year, and you get it done in 10 months, I'll think you are the greatest.

4) Where is the money. If you have my money, I am in the hole. If you don't have my money you are in the hole. That is where the leverage lies. If I haven't paid you yet, I can't very well demand much of anything. If I have, you owe me something.

5) Saying you are going to ignore me after I have paid you is criminal. That is the same as stealing. Can we say mail fraud?

Shives

[CoolHand]

I gotta be a little fanboi here and go with the GBA reccomendation. For me, they're almost local, fast turnaround, questions answered within a day, and they always seem to add a little extra to everything. They are really affordable too.

I wish my work would let me sneack down anodize in thier vats though. Type III milspec, pools big enough to anodize a car, lastest and greatest, choice of silver black or chemcoat. :drools:

Yup, I have heard that from many people.

They are #1 of the two I have left to try.

[SlartyBartFast]

Coolhand, you can excuse the failures all you want. However, they still remain excuses.

If you blow a schedule, it is your responsibility to notify everyone affected.
If you are continuously under estimating, time to learn how to do it properly.

If you have any sense of honour, you respect your word. If you don't think you can respect your promises, don't make promises to begin with.

It is the business person's responsibilty to deliver ON TIME, TO SPEC, and WITHIN BUDGET. The only responsibility of the customer is to pay up on completion of work.

[CoolHand]

Coolhand, you can excuse the failures all you want. However, they still remain excuses.

If you blow a schedule, it is your responsibility to notify everyone affected.
If you are continuously under estimating, time to learn how to do it properly.

If you have any sense of honour, you respect your word. If you don't think you can respect your promises, don't make promises to begin with.

It is the business person's responsibilty to deliver ON TIME, TO SPEC, and WITHIN BUDGET. The only responsibility of the customer is to pay up on completion of work.

Thank you Captain Obvious.

Call it an excuse if you like, but spouting the obvious online and making it happen consistently as a one man show are two totally different things.

Be Righteously Indignant all you like, but all you're really doing is moving around so much hot air.

[ricwhic414]

I know Im not a dealer on here and Im not a big shot around here but all I have to say is communicate.
Honestly I have worked with rogue and luke. Those two are the best people I have ever dealt with and the biggest reason is the communicate. Im sorry but if you are doing something for someone and they have giving you there hard earned money it should be expected that you communicate with them everytime something happens. Like with Luke a couple things didnt go as planned and he talked to me about it and we figured everything out.

If you are a dealer tell people to wait and tell them not to even send money if you are not capable of handling all the work. Line up jobs get those done then tell more people to send there stuff.

I promise that almost every customer will be fine in waiting if you communicate, it takes probably 5mins tops to answer a email.

[RRfireblade]

Well this took off in a hurry , I'll try and jump back in....

then...


With all due respect, I doubt there could be a less efficient way to handle things.

Learn to estmate, get a project planner, evaluate your resources, and track work and due dates rigourously.

You CAN turn people down. Or, keep blocks of time open for those you "can't". Part of the estimate for each job should include possible over-runs. Fit the important clients in the "spare" time.

If you have basic planning, giving ALL customers current status, due date, and possible delays should be a piece of cake.

First off , are you insane?

This is NOT the same as having a customer walk into your store front , you discuss , give quotes , take in work , plan and schedule and move on with business as usual.

Internet/Forum based work has almost nothing in common with that 'norm'.

'Assuming' you want to keep a somewhat steady stream of work coming in ...

You respond to like a 1000 people a week who all want work done , have only a rough idea of what they actually want done , when they want it done , when they are 'really' going to get the stuff to you , when they 'may' have payment and a dozen other ifs and maybes all rolled into a single so called 'job'.

I have to tell 10 people to go ahead and send in work and then wait to see if maybe 1/3 actually ship when they say or even go thru with the job at all.

There's no possible way to plan anything before the work shows up , then...at least half the time or more you still have to evaluate the job , give requested suggestions and finally estimations. That's why it's called custom work. It rare that you can give full estimates price wise or other , sight unseen.

If only it were that simple.

[benzy2]

Anyone notice in a restraunt when you give them your name they ALWAYS over estimate your wait? Why wouldnt that be the case here? Even more so if you are known to never meet a deadline? These people have been around for a long time. They know what it takes on the good side and they have seen enough to know what the absolute max is it could take to setup and so on. I cant see how they underestimate jobs over and over in good faith? Most of the guys badmouthed in that thread are very smart people. It isnt like they dont understand their current work load. Why have a time frame if you have no reason to believe it will be hit? Again Im not mad that it takes long.

I have seen what good customer service can do for a company. I have seen what bad customer service can do to a company. The people with a complaint are ones who claim to have been ignored for a year. There is no way that is allowable. A few days fine. A week or two i can see. A month for a project like this is pushing it way too far. A year is absurd. Im sure over and over things go perfectly and fall right on time. But on a project that you havent tried before, or when switching suppliers, or when doing anything uncertain why not make the time frame long enough that you know you can make it? If you came out to me and said "Hey Ive never had to set something like this up and I have a lot of other work that needs to be done on the current setup so it may take twice as long as originally thought here is your new time line." I may not be happy things changed but I would respect that you are doing the best you can and you showed enough respect back to keep me informed of any timeframe changes.

The biggest complaint over and over seems to be the lack of communication. I dont see what taking the time to respond to at the very least your current customers is so hard for so many people to do. It wouldnt be allowable in any other business but because this is a small time thing the answer is always "What do you expect me to do?" That question isnt one you should ask your customers. Its one you should ask yourself and solve yourself to keep customers happy.

Tell me my time frame on the project is 2 years at the most knowing that would be if everything went wrong over and over. I can live with the truth. Dont give me high hopes of having it back in 3 months and then not only smash them but also totally ignore me.

[Pneumagger]

Uhhh Oh....

if ASP dissappears I'll be pissed

[BigEvil]

Where did that come from?

[Lohman446]

Universally within both groups opinions are the same. Raise my prices to the point that I can make money.

Seems a pretty basic concept to me...

When doing things for other people as a business you do it because

A) You are financially independent and greatly enjoy what you are doing, so profit is meaningless

or

B) To make an adequate living doing something you enjoy (hopefully enjoy) in regards to the amount of work and money you put into it. Yes, thats vague for a reason. Only the person doing it can define adequate return on investment

Otherwise you get a normal job you can tolerate that meets your financial needs

[Pneumagger]

Where did that come from?

the PHOG. Pun posted it yestrday. I can only guess he's finally fed up with being anally pounded on the public forums.

[SCpoloRicker]

Slarty Bart Fast: I lol'd.