Its hitting the fan over at the guild..

[SlartyBartFast]

First off , are you insane?

No, I'm a professional.

This is NOT the same as having a customer walk into your store front , you discuss , give quotes , take in work , plan and schedule and move on with business as usual.

It's EXACTLY the same. You're just not face to face.

You respond to like a 1000 people a week who all want work done

Use a generic response with current average (for the average type work requested) wait range and a request for more dtails of desired work. Note that wait range varies with other work load.

have only a rough idea of what they actually want done

See above. Time estimate is relative to detaled escription of work. More detailed work description equals a tghter time estimate.

when they want it done

That's for you to give your availability first. I think this is where DIYers and hobbists go wrong. They give priority to customers that want it first as opposed to prioritised work. So the poor bugger who said they didn't mind waiting, and legitimately assumed a reasonable wait, ends up waiting eternally as their job keeps getting delayed by rush jobs.

when they are 'really' going to get the stuff to you

Give the customer a deadline after which the estimate is invalid. If the customer misses the deadline, as soon as you do receive the stuff give them a new estimate with the option of paying return shipping or accepting the new schedule.

when they 'may' have payment

Your call. Determine the payment schedule and make them stick to it. Don't do work if the schedule is not followed. If the payments are late and work is delayed, tell the customer what the new estimate is.

and a dozen other ifs and maybes all rolled into a single so called 'job'.

Most other ifs and maybes fall into supplier problems. Those and others can be handled by honest communication with the customer. When you contact a supplier, immediately follow-up the suppliers response to the custoemr if it affects the schedule.

I have to tell 10 people to go ahead and send in work and then wait to see if maybe 1/3 actually ship when they say or even go thru with the job at all.

As long as you're not doing the same as doctors. Scheduling 10 patients for every appointment slot so that you don't have any empty space. Instead, for good custoemr service you should be chrging those that cause you to have gaps or including the inevitable gaps in your estmating so that they are filled.

There's no possible way to plan anything before the work shows up , then...at least half the time or more you still have to evaluate the job , give requested suggestions and finally estimations. That's why it's called custom work. :) It rare that you can give full estimates price wise or other , sight unseen.

In that case, of truly custom work, the only estimate you should commit to is how long the initial estiamte will take after the stuff is received. You should however be able to quote averages for the whole job.
If you go to a garage, they can quote you the averages, tell you their per hour rate and other charges, and tell you when to leave your car and then come back for the estimate.

If only it were that simple.

I never said it was simple.

[Lohman446]

Expecting accurate and complete estimates sight on seen is ludicrous. That being said, estimates are that, estimates. Unless there is a reason what I am having done deviates from what was discussed (I send a steel body rather than an aluminum for instance, the stuff I send is in non-working condition, poor condition, etc.) there should not be a drastic variance.

When someone says 3-4 months as an estimate, five or six may not be out of line given proper communication. When someone says 3-4 months and a year later (or often more) theres no communication, or very little, there is a problem.

[hitech]

I've noticed that the better a "tech" you are, the worse a "business man" you are. I know I suck at business...

[SCpoloRicker]

I've noticed that the better a "tech" you are, the worse a "business man" you are. I know I suck at business...

I guess that makes me and Steelrat the business guys... :)

/we break things

[RRfireblade]

No, I'm a professional.


I never said it was simple.

Professional relative to what context ?

Mine goes back almost 15 yrs. As a small business offering custom service or not , you conform to the common threads of your customer base or you go away.

You've got alot to learn about the real world in 'this' context. Things just are not as black and white as they are in a text book. I guess the customer is always right didn't make it into your 'text book' huh ? How about always making the customer happy ?

Good business is all about the customer , you can't force them to conform to strict guidelines , they just don't.

You want to stand behind all these hard a$$ rules and laws and you just can't do that.

Time sensitive estimates and 'generic responses' , you are seriously lost once again. Ar e you saying that if you sent a request in for a specific vain of custom work and recieved "Deas Sir , your request have been processed, thanks " you'd feel goos about that? How about when you call a company for customer service and get all automatied responses , do you get a warm fuzzy feeling for that company afterwards? Mmm Hmm , thought so.

As far off as your are on most of your thoughts , I honestly can't see the point in trying to help you understand so Ima let it go at that.


Obviously you are fully enititled to your opinion , it is after all , nothing more than just that.

Thanks. :)

[SlartyBartFast]

Obviously you are fully enititled to your opinion , it is after all , nothing more than just that.

As are yours.

I've worked many years in customer service. A client for my current employer means at least tens of millions if not BILLION dollar contracts. When the customer is paying that much, they REALLY want to have it all their way. They want it platinum plated and they want it yesterday.
BUT, if we always give the customer what they want, when they want it, at the price they want, we'd be out of buisness.
It's hilarious that your position would be so hypocritical.
On the one hand you blame all the woes of not keeping to schedule on serving the customer, yet the entire thread is about how blown schedules are pissing customers off.

[SlartyBartFast]

Its just too bad that most care more about low prices than they do customer service.

Do they? Obviously there is a minimum of service, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist.

Also, there's no need to target your buisness at the lowest common denominator. In fact most small business is doomed if trying that as they will never have the volume to counter act the low prices.

Take a cue from other niche product businesses. A simple analogy: try walking into a Mercedes or Porche dealership and ask for a Chevy prices vehicle. They won't try for one instant to humour you or abide by any notion that the customer is right and must be pleased.

They'll respectfully tell you to go elsewhere and not waste their time.

[RRfireblade]

It's definately a total package. Lowest price may get them in the door but CS keeps 'em coming back after the low price sours the morning after. :)

My Real Estate business is 99% referal and return based. Those people NEVER ask me about my end.

We're also discussing , at least in my case , an animal quite different than typical business like I had stated.

"Custom paintball" service doesn't parallel many others. Your customer base is largely young/er 'kids' , often times interest based on a whim or the 'moment' and you have to treat them (at least try) like any other customer. you can never tell where the work will come from and who the good cutomers will end up being. You either cater to that and tailor your practices to keep them inquiring and spending or you don't and you just won;t get much of that business.... which BTW , doesn't leave much.

It's all about why you or I , in this case , do it. For the last year or 2 it's purely a side line of mine. I do it for fun and experience...and a little , just to play with my home shop.

I also , as far as I know , am not having any of the issues 'those' guys are so I'm must be doing ok.

[RRfireblade]

First off , I'm speaking of MYSELF. I'm not pissing any one off as far as I know. :)

And your point is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. You seriously want to compare the business dealing of multimillion dollar business and thier clientel with that of the average 15 year P baller.

Yeah , sure.

Oh , and yes but my opinion is that of some one IN the argued business , not that of one mearly reading about it and making wild guesses and assumptions.

[Lohman446]

Do they? Obviously there is a minimum of service, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist.

Also, there's no need to target your buisness at the lowest common denominator. In fact most small business is doomed if trying that as they will never have the volume to counter act the low prices.

Take a cue from other niche product businesses. A simple analogy: try walking into a Mercedes or Porche dealership and ask for a Chevy prices vehicle. They won't try for one instant to humour you or abide by any notion that the customer is right and must be pleased.

They'll respectfully tell you to go elsewhere and not waste their time.

But Porsche dealers go by a factory enforced "one-price" policy, not a fair comparison at all.

I agree that the consumer looks for the lowest price, look what happens to those who do worry about price alone. Make it worth your time or don't do it. I have very seldom "price shopped" a job, though I have gotten prices before committing. If I call someone and they say $XXX to do it I don't run around trying to find it for XXX - 10%. Custom work you are purchasing someones reputation for the job really. I have not done things after getting prices though, totally different aspect. Those looking for custom work, need to consider things far beyond price. You can only price shop if someone else can do it, just as well, and in the same type of time frame. A "custom" shop that can show its customers are not constantly whining about overtime runs and who praise the work, can probably charge more than... well say Doc or Punishers (no insult intended) who have an entirely different reputation.

If the rate of people who discuss work and who actually have it done is in the sub 5% range, theres an issue. It does make it hard on the providers as they spend a lot of "pre agreement" time on dealing with, well nothing.

[RRfireblade]

Take a cue from other niche product businesses. A simple analogy: try walking into a Mercedes or Porche dealership and ask for a Chevy prices vehicle. They won't try for one instant to humour you or abide by any notion that the customer is right and must be pleased.

They'll respectfully tell you to go elsewhere and not waste their time.

Not true at all and I'm speaking of experiences from just 2 weeks ago.

[Lohman446]

In a technical and custom field - the customer is only as right as his pocket book chooses to make him

"My car needs a set of wires"
"Actually it needs a coil and ignition module"
"My car needs a set of wires and plugs, I know what I'm doing, put it on"
"Ok, sign here"

"Hi, your plugs and wires are done. That will be $220"
"Good, does it run better now?"
"No.. it still doesn't run, it still needs an ignition module and coil"
"But...."

[RRfireblade]

In a technical and custom field - the customer is only as right as his pocket book chooses to make him

"My car needs a set of wires"
"Actually it needs a coil and ignition module"
"My car needs a set of wires and plugs, I know what I'm doing, put it on"
"Ok, sign here"

"Hi, your plugs and wires are done. That will be $220"
"Good, does it run better now?"
"No.. it still doesn't run, it still needs an ignition module and coil"
"But...."

The customer being right is more of a gauge as to the attitude with which a customer should be dealt. It is most often used , in fact , when the customer is generally wrong. :)

The point is how you treat them in that instant.

[SlartyBartFast]

You seriously want to compare the business dealing of multimillion dollar business and thier clientel with that of the average 15 year P baller.

Yeah , sure.

Actually, dealing with a 15 yo is easier. It much simpler to give them a polite brush-off.

And first thing you learn serving BIG clients is that they behave pretty much like your average 15yo.

[SlartyBartFast]

Not true at all and I'm speaking of experiences from just 2 weeks ago.

While you walk the walk they'll be nice. You'll even talk your way into a test drive.

Tell them your budget is 15,000$, THEN try and get served.