2007 Euromag

[warbeak2099]

Oh my god I have been dealing with numpteys for far too long!

I came on here fully expecting you to have ripped me to shreds but that was very mature of you. I know what your feeling on the integrity side of things and it does kind'a suck that in this day and age people still have to mislead about products to make them sell.

I for one am glad that AGD still has people like you who get steamed up about this and tries to stamp it out for the good of AGD and it's legacy. Most people will only defend gun X because they happen to be shooting its, next month when they have gun Y they wont be so bothered and no matter how hard companies try they cannot buy hearts, minds and loyalty.

Much love,
Niox, but you can call me Sam.

Sam,

I hear ya. I might not always shoot mags, but the best thing about them is the way AGD conducts themselves. With honesty and integrity that is. I'm actually looking at purchasing a Mini as my next gun. I'll probably keep the mag as a backup. But the point is, you don't even have to be addicted to mags to understand that AGD is a noble non sequitur in the industry. Hopefully this Andy character can sell his mags and still maintain that key factor.

Cheers,
Pete

P.S. numpteys? Please explain!

[Lohman446]

in this day and age people still have to mislead about products to make them sell..

BS cop-out. I don't mislead about my products / services and do just fine... same as this business has done since 1953 - then again, not misleading and building a customer base is a long term business plan that does not always meet todays "what can you do for me now" mentality.

[Niox]

Sam,

I hear ya. I might not always shoot mags, but the best thing about them is the way AGD conducts themselves. With honesty and integrity that is. I'm actually looking at purchasing a Mini as my next gun. I'll probably keep the mag as a backup. But the point is, you don't even have to be addicted to mags to understand that AGD is a noble non sequitur in the industry. Hopefully this Andy character can sell his mags and still maintain that key factor.

Cheers,
Pete

P.S. numpteys? Please explain!

A very english expression, the best way to explain it is to think of someone who is obviously wrong, everyone knows he is wrong and have tried to help him out but he just wont listen and just ends insulting those why try to help. Urban Dictionary -> Numptey I suppose Don Miguel can be a bit of a numptey. I wasn't calling you one Pete, it's just that lately I've gotten use to talking to lots of them and it made a refreshing change to speak to a proper human being and for that I raise a glass to you .

BS cop-out. I don't mislead about my products / services and do just fine... same as this business has done since 1953 - then again, not misleading and building a customer base is a long term business plan that does not always meet todays "what can you do for me now" mentality.

I can't figure out if the "cop out" bit was aimed at me? If it was why would I need to make up BS to sell my products? I don't work for Fat Bob's or any other paintball company. I work at what you would call a general store on the checkout, it's not much but it pays the bills and feeds my paintball addiction.

If you think my comment was aimed at you, you are wrong. It was just a sweeping generalisation and one that I think rings true for most cases, thankfully there are exceptions and as I have already said AGD is one and rightfully so.

Much love,
Niox

[y0da900]

But the point is, you don't even have to be addicted to mags to understand that AGD is a noble non sequitur in the industry. Hopefully this Andy character can sell his mags and still maintain that key factor.

I don't even own a Mag, but I love them from a mechanical design and reliability standpoint. There was a thread elsewhere recently about our thoughts on why Mags aren't that popular today, and one of my general thoughts was that AGD would not lower themselves to telling outright lies, and rebadging the old as new with no real advantage, another reason I love them.

I'm not so sure he can maintain that key factor though, I PM'ed him earlier about what Chronobreak said, that those of us being critical should offer something constructive instead of just ridicule, and the answer I got back was a complete BS line about how they really are more accurate and shoot further (along with cockers). I normally wouldn't re-post this, but trying to feed me this AFTER I told him he was wrong and told him that I'm a mechanical engineer, so I'm not just blowing smoke, I got this:

The accuracy and distance statement is actually true.

It was eplanined to me once about the balistics of different designed bolts which give the ball more energy (can't remember weather it was potential or kinetic) the bolt does make a difference to range even at a given velocity. The mag with an x valve does have a greater range over an electro as there is much less drop off, so with a string of shots the mag will outrange an electro as the electro will sustain drop off and the mag won't, even when both markers are chrono's identically.

As for accuracy, the barrel does have a lot to do with it, but again so does the bolt and the air delivery to the bolt. I have used more or less every electro marker on the market, the mag and the autococker are both noticably more accurate with identical barrels than electro.s

I replied with more technical information and links to show him otherwise, but I doubt he will reply to it.

[SCpoloRicker]

yoda900, that's classic!

[Chronobreak]

well the distance thing has been tested and proven wrong many times over.

everything at the same fps goes the same distance with the same setup blah blah blah

however as far as accuracy....when reffering to consistency mags are pretty much still at the top ladder at shot to shot consistency. so when reffering to accuracy=paint to barrel match + consistency. mags are perhaps more accurate or as accurate as well as anything else.



as i said before i would stress the outright reliability when selling them,waterproof design. weight(an all ule mag set up right as lighter than a mini)

also as for the video linked in aprticular, there are videos that show the actual downrange paint and VERY close/consistent groupings at those high rof's(e-mags,x-mags,pneumags,mechs-legal and non) that are no offence to you but much better in showing the guns capabilities and performance.

im glad to see more people selling mags, and more so more mags being sold

as for ideas you could mount a mag and atempt to bash it with an electronic(generic) gun and watch the gun just shatter on the mag

i have more ideas...lmk

no more smoking for me

[y0da900]

well the distance thing has been tested and proven wrong many times over.

everything at the same fps goes the same distance with the same setup blah blah blah

however as far as accuracy....when reffering to consistency mags are pretty much still at the top ladder at shot to shot consistency. so when reffering to accuracy=paint to barrel match + consistency. mags are perhaps more accurate or as accurate as well as anything else.



as i said before i would stress the outright reliability when selling them,waterproof design. weight(an all ule mag set up right as lighter than a mini)


as for ideas you could mount a mag and atempt to bash it with an electronic(generic) gun and watch the gun just shatter on the mag

I mentioned that in the reply, which follows just for grins:

That statement is entirely inaccurate. An object travelling at 300FPS with the same mass, surface finish, and shape will travel the same distance provided it does not have backspin. The ONLY thing that could make it shoot further other than that would be to somehow disrupt the helical wake it leaves behind it, which induces a substantial amount of drag and causes what can be seen as the corkscrew effect that sometimes happens. There are theories on how this can be done, but rest assured, the Mag does not do this.
http://automags.org/resource/tech/tomstech/index.shtml
You should probably read through those, and do a search on here for some of Tom Kaye's old posts, AO used to be much better in the theory department in the Deep Blue section of the site. Per Tom, the inventor, the range statement is patently false.

As far as accuracy, that is also for the most part irrelevant, as regulation technology has become very very consistent with very fast recharge rates, fast enough that at shot speeds that a human can actually shoot in semi mode, there is little to no drop off, and at a very consistent speed. Any accuracy that is perceived in a mag or cocker is a result of the comfort of the person shooting it. Benchtests have been done by a number of people showing that with identical velocities, barrels, and paint, that no recent gun with a good reg is any more accurate or shoots further than any other. Anything else is perception.

You should consider things re-explained, and should also delve into the research further to see that I am not just feeding you a line of bull. There are a number of posts on AO and the Tinkers guild (http://www.network54.com/Forum/9013/), both of which have evidence presented by people with what you like to tout as your credentials (Simon Stevens - the head of R&D for NPS, Tom Kaye - inventor of the Automag, a number of engineers and designers, just some generally intelligent people).

[jenarelJAM]

If you need a list of reasons to buy a mag, here you go:

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=652188

[skife]

Reasonable prices? Do you know what those translate to in American dollars? That's almost $450 for a Pro Classic! Yea, he really cares about bringing the mag back. If he did he'd be doing it with the same values that AGD employs. Instead he's turning automags into Ions.

$450 is like $40 less than what store.airgun.com sells the exact same marker for.
did anyone else notice this?

[Lohman446]

Im going to go back to the point that I really don't care what they call them. Noone called AGD out when the X-valve name was changed, and then changed back, and then moved again, and....

You have to call it something, and they are offering a package together and calling it something. Does anyone actually have a problem with that?

As to pricing. How many of you have ever dealt with trying to get something that fires projectiles at a high speed and rate of fire through customs into a country that doesn't even allow there Olympic shooting team to posess firearms? Guess what, there is going to be some cost involved. Not to mention it is my guess that paintball has far less playable areas (and players) in the UK then it does in the US, thus the laws of scale work against you. Once such considerations (and I am sure more) are taken into account do we really have a problem with the price?

Make the issues where you have them guys. If its the name you are being petty. If its the price I think you have not fully considered it. The issues that AO is going to have center around the claims of more accuracy and range. At least figure out where the issue of discussion is and don't make it a mass smear campaign against everything involved.

[warbeak2099]

$450 is like $40 less than what store.airgun.com sells the exact same marker for.
did anyone else notice this?

Not for a Pro Classic. A Pro Classic is $229 on the airgun store. But as it's been said, there are shipping costs and the like. Then again, doesn't AGD Europe make some of the guns over there?

And just when I thought I was overreacting way too much... we are shown that PM. Wow, disturbing.

[skife]

Im going to go back to the point that I really don't care what they call them. Noone called AGD out when the X-valve name was changed, and then changed back, and then moved again, and....

You have to call it something, and they are offering a package together and calling it something. Does anyone actually have a problem with that?

As to pricing. How many of you have ever dealt with trying to get something that fires projectiles at a high speed and rate of fire through customs into a country that doesn't even allow there Olympic shooting team to posess firearms? Guess what, there is going to be some cost involved. Not to mention it is my guess that paintball has far less playable areas (and players) in the UK then it does in the US, thus the laws of scale work against you. Once such considerations (and I am sure more) are taken into account do we really have a problem with the price?

Make the issues where you have them guys. If its the name you are being petty. If its the price I think you have not fully considered it. The issues that AO is going to have center around the claims of more accuracy and range. At least figure out where the issue of discussion is and don't make it a mass smear campaign against everything involved.

the x-valve name was changed?
musta been while i was not in to paintball for that 8 months or so.

[Lohman446]

the x-valve name was changed?
musta been while i was not in to paintball for that 8 months or so.

Lets see.. the X-valve has been known as (that I know of) the X-valve, the E-Maxx valve, the RT Pro (with the X superimposed under it?).. Just labelling and I don't think anyone cared.

[warbeak2099]

Lets see.. the X-valve has been known as (that I know of) the X-valve, the E-Maxx valve, the RT Pro (with the X superimposed under it?).. Just labelling and I don't think anyone cared.

They were trying to come up with a name for a new product.

This is not a new product. It's an RT ULE with a Tac rail.

[punkncat]

Lets see.. the X-valve has been known as (that I know of) the X-valve, the E-Maxx valve, the RT Pro (with the X superimposed under it?).. Just labelling and I don't think anyone cared.

As I know it was laser ingraved with the RTP(x), the XValve and just the X.

The E-Maxx was done for Tuna.