2008 Automag . . .

[robnix]

I still think all that's really needed is a frame that could be fitted for either mech or electro internals. Make it lightweight, sell it as a mech frame, mill it to accept a T-Board or APE A-5 board, a 9 volt, microswitch, and a solenoid. You could sell the frame for under $100.00, drop in electro kits could be under $100.00, giving people a choice in playing style and cost. Make it fit current RT/Pro rails and you're gold with build options.

Call it the AGD Chameleon Frame.

[Tao]

"what would it take to get you to buy a mag?"

Thats actually a good question. id be interested in the responses.

I think part of the answer to that is to have a team who usually placs hight in the big events to be AGD sponsored. The market largely consists of sheep afterall (Seriously), who follow the trends.

[ProblemKinder]

I think part of the answer to that is to have a team who usually placs hight in the big events to be AGD sponsored. The market largely consists of sheep afterall (Seriously), who follow the trends.

we all know what they REALLY want, but it would be interesting to see what their responses would be

if anything it might atleast spark some interest in people's mind, get them thinking about it. wondering...hoping...

[Ninjeff]

I think part of the answer to that is to have a team who usually placs hight in the big events to be AGD sponsored. The market largely consists of sheep afterall (Seriously), who follow the trends.

True true.

[DocRocker]

I still think all that's really needed is a frame that could be fitted for either mech or electro internals. Make it lightweight, sell it as a mech frame, mill it to accept a T-Board or APE A-5 board, a 9 volt, microswitch, and a solenoid. You could sell the frame for under $100.00, drop in electro kits could be under $100.00, giving people a choice in playing style and cost. Make it fit current RT/Pro rails and you're gold with build options.

Call it the AGD Chameleon Frame.

Me likes that idea. Single frame but

1 kit for Mech (ie sear with trigger pin)
1 kit for Electro (drop in a different sear with no trigger pin and a frame pre drilled to hold a circuit board and solenoid)
1 kit for a pump conversion (but that would be lowest on my list)
great idea!!!

[MuKen]

A mag with a built in warp feed system that places the hopper underneath the barrel and feeds into the breach from the bottom, just like the system was originally intended to evolve into.

[LinearGoose]

New on/off/Sear Placement/Power Source

Well mags should stay mech. How bought a new On/Off that gives you an eletric feel or a pnuematic one at the very least? I heard BigE got his ULT trigger a bit close to a pnuematic feel so it it possible. Also why not look into the placement of the sear? Maybe you could find a different position for the sear to give the trigger a better feel. Look at the sear mod, it gave you more of a walkable trigger without the chuffing. Now for something new, everyone seems to complain that mags arnt efficient and well every claims that thats how effiecient mags are going to get. So how about a new type of power source? Nuclear power mag anyone? Tippmann made that c3 or whatever its called run of of propain, why not make something simular that will give the mag an extra boost at the tanks.

[ProblemKinder]

Nuclear power mag anyone?

i've had my fill of nuclear propulsion.

[Papa_Smurf]

Yeah, I like my thyroid, thanks....

[nate2k191]

This thread is long and full of a ton of info, i only made it to page 4 before i had to post.

AGD::CUSTOM::INNOVATION::QUALITY

DISCLAIMER: this will take great minds, like TK's, and i believe it may be possible


As for the type of marker, make it diverse - compromise on everything, leaving nothing out. I can picture a standard base mag (body and trigger frame) using an x-valve/e-mag/classic valve with many optional parts to choose from, kind of how rogue and tuna will build you a custom mag. Except now with a new design that accepts pre-made kits. These kits will be pneumatic, electro-pneu, mechanical, pump, or straight electro. The factory (filled with oompaloompas) will DROP the kit you select into the trigger frame of the mag of the future, along with all the other custom parts you select from the well-designed internet store with many custom part options, and marker you've always wanted shipped to your door ready to go. You can also buy multiple kits (if you're as blessed as a-tach-one) and drop them in yourself. The only problems i see with this is that you are designing lots of parts, which takes lots of man power, will, and innovation. And this wide array of parts means lots of materials and different costs to make all the different designs. I'm not sure if it's impossible to make such a diverse mag either, we may have to eliminate one of the kits or something.

This mag, being created from multiple custom parts, may not follow a similar look, feel, or firepower, but can be tied together with common design elements or main bodies/frames. It will embody all that is mag - custom.

Now, how to achieve this: Everyone in the aftermarket business (rogue, Doc, Tuna, guy who makes all the new frames and pump things, and many others) need to move to a secret remote island, or illinois, and combine their efforts in this great array of new, innovative, never been thought possible mag parts which will comprise this 2008 mag, thus creating an AGD renaissance. How they get the money/resources/time/location/away from wives, to produce this 9th wonder of the world is beyond me.

Marketing won't be a problem, since every previous mag owner will buy a 2008 mag due to their perfection in design. They will sell themselves at fields, since players will be in awe at the most innovative marker to hit the earth. Of course, magazines and demo's at various large events will help too. word of mouth has been mag forever, they are a niche.

Price? may be expensive, each kit ranging from 80-250$ with the base marker (body and trigger frame) at around 199.95, and the extra add ons like the asa, rogue foregrips, and barrels, costing 10-XX$ a piece. This gets you a marker from around 300 bucks to 550. or mabey 1250.00$, i'll sell my car to buy one.

if i think of something else, i'll let you know, i'm sure i left about 90% of the info/ideas/problems out.

OR forget about all this and just maintain that mags are the best and most diverse markers made and do not need to be re-made since all good things must end, but not quit working flawlessly. There's a pistol(sydarm), pump(kit), mech(tac/classic/rt/mini), electro(e-mag/x-mag/x-moded), custom(pneu/electro-pneu, crazy-franken-mag) -- Is there any sort of paintball launching device i forgot to mention? this too

.i didn't mean to offend anyone, i'm sorry.
..no animals were harmed in the making of this post.
...its a lot to read, you can buy the book that comes out this august if you want more.
....end crazy essay inspired by agd/ao.

[robnix]

Me likes that idea. Single frame but

1 kit for Mech (ie sear with trigger pin)
1 kit for Electro (drop in a different sear with no trigger pin and a frame pre drilled to hold a circuit board and solenoid)
1 kit for a pump conversion (but that would be lowest on my list)
great idea!!!

I'm actually a bit surprised that one hasn't been designed yet. If I knew how to use Autocad I'd give it a shot myself.

[FooTemps]

Well, seeing as how AGD has tried to pioneer modularity and homebrew customization from the start.... I've got to say:

STOP MAKING THE MAG SO VERSATILE.

Why? With AGD's track record, you can notice that modular breaches, intellifeed, selectable modes, and the like have all been widely IGNORED or considered UNNEEDED LUXURIES by the general paintball audience. While being innovative, sometimes being specialized and focused is a better selling point than being a well rounded or easily adaptable machine. Just like in racing, you see that many cars are highly specialized for their category. You see formula cars, rally cars, uphill climbers, drag cars, etc and you say to yourself, "hey, those cars are really different from one another while all following generally same principles."

I believe this philosophy also applies to paintball. Where motorsport racing has 4 wheels, an engine, and universal philosophy of "GO FAST", paintball instead has triggers, valves and the philosphy of "SHOOT PAINT AT THE OTHER DUDE". If you step back and look at the different fields of paintball, you can see that each gameplay style calls for a different style of marker to achieve their goal. AGD has tried to cater to those categories by adapting the mag platform to make things like the TAC-ONE and X-Mag. Both are very different beasts built from the same idea of versatility, but they fail in the sense that they have the image that they are a mag that has been adapted to fit in their respected categories.

The 08 mag shouldn't just be one marker, it should be multiple markers highly specialized to appeal to each crowd. Build different machines for different purposes... Build it like this:

• Change the image of the mag from versatile to highly specialized for its audience: Make the tourney mag the "best in electro-pneumatic technology" or smallest and lightest or high pressure, high performance and then make the scenario mag a "mechanical monster" that is tougher than tippman but still throws paint with the best. If the general public sees one mag as the f1 car of paintball guns and another mag as the rally car of paintball guns, you've succeeded in marketing what's generally the same thing as two completely different things.
• Stick to a universal platform but do it in a manner that is unrecognizable to the general public: Just like how car manufacturers will build shared platform cars, there should be a universal platform that is shared while still being adjustable to cater to the market. Why do this? You can sell more "different" items. Look at how other paintball companies went with yearly lines and apply that sort of philosophy to having different marker types.
• Limit customization at a base level: make it so you can't turn a scenario marker into a tournament model and vice versa. Make it so your budget model stays budget. This way the market can't get saturated with the same marker everywhere. Build each marker with significantly different body structures that still utilize a similar frame base or valve system. The AGD valve system is already effective, just change it so they utilize the same valve system in a functionally different way. Make it so the tourney marker can only be actuated electro-pneumatically or something. Make the scenario marker only powered off a pneumatic system. Make slight variations in the valve bodies/powertubes/whatever so that you can't make the other without significant modification.

Ideas like the chameleon frame and shared valve base are good, but don't let the end user know that they are using a universal platform. Make the user think that the marker in his hand is purpose built for the sole job of being a tournament marker or scenario marker or whatever marker.

Yeah, it's a big departure from what AGD currently does.

[Evil Bob]

I want the damn HAIR trigger!

I want a marker with a light touch walkable trigger that I can wash off in the sink and not worry about it shorting out the PCB, something that doesn't require batteries (I really hate buying batteries or having to recharge crap).

I'd like to see a mag body bottom feeding breach take the Q-loader pods internal, the mill sim crowd would go nuts over that.

-EB

[p8ntbal4me]

I agree with some of this,.. but let me change some and put my 2 cents to make 4.

My two cents would be to make it competitve in the market more than anything:

-no mech overide)

Bob (TAG) said this when talking about the E-Mag boards. I agree pretty much with the thought that "if it was made to work correctly,... you shouldnt need it.
Same thing with the HES,... the micro switch is simple and it works,... doesnt require power.

-no huge battery (or keep it optional)

9volt,.. in the grip.

-cocker threads but comes with no barrel (most poeple get their own anyway)

I dont like turning my barrel 90 times to get it off,.. players,.. all ages,.. are lazy. I picked up a new Shocker NXT and the threds on that are nice! 3 spins and its off. Under high ROF,.. it stays put.

-no sight rail

Agree

--build rail into minbody (if cheaper))

Not sure what this means. I assume the dove tail on the bottom of the frame. If so,.. no. Everyone likes to add stuff to their gun. Save a machine pass for the mill and let the player decide what cradle they want and in what color.

-break beam eyes)

Agree

-interchangable or adjustible breaches for warp (if cost effective)

While I know someone is going to poke fun at me for this comment,.. it needs to be said. Warps,.. other than Mag owners/people that dont mind the weight,... dont use them. Thats pretty much the rest of the world of paintball. Someone said marketing was key on this idea,.. and I agree. No warp breech. While we all know it has its place,... if it was a place that would warrent a space on this new gun,.. it would already be attached to every other gun out there as an optional breech and would NOT have made this list.[/QUOTE]

-make simple milled bodies to save $$$ but give orderers the option for certain milling schemes

Interchangable body kits. Look at the ION,.. somehow,.. those body kits sell at my local field. If done right,.. it adds just 1 more thing someone can customise.

-90 degree or Y grip. I think a Y gripped emarker would be popular outside of the AGD niche

I wish we had more vert frames for other guns that I own besides the mag. I hae 3 vert framed Angels that I love to play with.

[Carbon]

honestly. In the marketing scheme, AGD should play off its rep for reliability, build quality and speed.

as far as the execution and product...pure electropnumatic. If any company can pefect the inline poppet, AGD can.

People, Its not "selling out", its cashing it. Break yourself away from the niche mentality that has left the AGD name synonymous with relics of a bygone era.

lets get real here, there is really too small of a market for for a hybrid electro.