2008 Automag . . .

[Rudz]

Low operating pressure
High rof
Anti chop bolt
Break beam eyes, optional
Pnue and EP and pump systems
Light
Cocker threads, low profile detents
Angel threaded feednecks with capability of low profile feednecks
Hybrid frame
Internal air lines


At bare minimum

we need a low operating pressure system, the capablity of shooting deep into the tank

Internal air lines

Lightweight and compact

Fast recharge rates

[SlartyBartFast]

Low operating pressure

Absolutely NOT!

we need a low operating pressure system, the capablity of shooting deep into the tank

Search for the discussions on this subject. What's important is how many shots you get per fill. Not how low into the tank you go. NOT the same thing. High minimum pressures are only an issue if you regular fields can't provide consistent HP fills.

Fast recharge rates

Which means higher pressure operation really.

I'd like to see the very high pressure high efficiency marker TK always said he wanted to make.

On my list of wants:
If it's electro-pneumatic, give me a pneumatic pump handle and make it adjustable for throw and weight.

[Rudz]

All I want is efficiency, high pressure or low

[Paint-Fool]

Well I think it depends on what market you are targeting. If you mean current mag users well you can see what most of them want..well the few that have responded. If you mean the mass market,tourney pro wanna-be's,switch to the latest flavor of the week,worship certain teams/man crush players then it will come down to marketing. You would need it in the hands of some pro teams just to attract their attention I believe. The majority I think don't really care about quality they just want the newest thing. End of rant from an older player who likes quality and reliability over the latest fad.

[cyrus-the-virus]

A few ad's in AGP and other popular mags and an ad on pbnation and you'll be good. You'll reach the majority of the market.

Uni body's are bad because they are expensive to mill and you can't make a "speedball" and a "woodsball" mag.

Everyone on specops worships the almighty tac-1, making a speedball only gun you would loose a good portion of the paintball market.

[ProblemKinder]

i really think a mechanical gun that shoots like an electro (pneu) would do well with some good marketing.

there's already too many electros out there.

[punkncat]

RT valve #2: I think this has to be redesigned some how. EVERYONE loves low pressure and is a huge selling point, despite the fact it really doesnt matter.

I don't know about anyone else, but not being able to use the last 800 or so PSI is a real bother to me. In that ALONE, it makes LP a valuable consideration.

[Lee]

The current mag will operate down to about 450 PSI and still shoot at 280. People love shockers and ions even they are some of the worst gas hogs I've ever seen.



...

This thread makes me laugh, honestly reading some of the reply's in this thread made me fall on the floor. Everybody want's a DM7 corssed with a mini rather than a mag.

lets keep this on task shall we? i'd like to see what Jay is getting at here.

[Tao]

Alright . . .

Let's say for instance , someone was considering putting together the resources to bring an all new (as new as new could be ) Automag valve based marker platform. Meaning , a fresh marker that would accept the standard AIR/RT valve but besides that , the sky is the limit more or less.

What kind of person would you think that might peak interest in and what precisely , should said marker consist of at least bare minimum?

Thoughts ? E vs Mech ? Price ? Features ? Whatever . . . let's here it. Design your dream mag. What's it going to take to sell.

(assume for the moment the stock valve would go unchanged)


Let's here some thoughts . . .

My two cents would be to make it competitve in the market more than anything:

Cut costs
-no mech overide
-no huge battery (or keep it optional)
-cocker threads but comes with no barrel (most poeple get their own anyway)
-no sight rail
-build rail into minbody (if cheaper)

add features
-break beam eyes
-interchangable or adjustible breaches for warp (if cost effective)
-make simple milled bodies to save $$$ but give orderers the option for certain milling schemes
-90 degree or Y grip. I think a Y gripped emarker would be popular outside of the AGD niche

[Tao]

I don't know about anyone else, but not being able to use the last 800 or so PSI is a real bother to me. In that ALONE, it makes LP a valuable consideration.

Theoretically lower pressure means less max rate of fire and shoot down alot sooner since it takes longer to recharge the valve. I always refill my tank at 1000psi anyway. Also I doubt you can carry enough paint on you to still have some left going from 3000psi to gun not able to recharge from not enough air in the tank.

[mr doo doo]

um... just my 2 cents: stay with mechanical, but must have the reactive trigger and a bolt as good as the Level 10. mags, to me, are just known to be true mechs, and it would be good to stay like that.

besides of having a rail, just have a top body and a trigger frame on the bottom. and for the vertical asa.... i dont know, maybe something like the PTP Micromag. OH, and everything ULE!!

[cyrus-the-virus]

I say stay with HP, I always fill up after every game anyhow.

[Ninjeff]

i say stay mech man. Seriously. Smash the electro compitition with a pnuemag.

[ShadowNife]

What I would want in a 2008 Edition of the Mag:


--> Full ULE setup

- A full blown ULE mech Mag is already possible and light enough I believe

- For those that are going to say "deal with the weight or go to the gym", it's not really a point of "can we play with a 4 lb marker", but would you rather use a 2 lb or a 4 lb marker given the choice.

--> E-Pneumatic or Electric

- Lots of people have posted to have the option of selecting modes of e/mech/hybrid. It was nice in the E-mag and all, but mainstream sales don't lean that way. It's one thing for a niche market to offer extravagant options to their user base, but realistically it won't be used enough to warrant it's extra design and incorporation. (I'm pretty sure it'd be easier to make a marker straight e-mode or mech, not mixing the two. Sorry if I'm wrong ) furthermore, use a 9v. It's more standard and the E-mag battery really becomes a liability unless it is somehow dealt with better.

- I would have said Mech to keep with the spirit of the mag world, but honestly we already have the standard mag to fill that station. My friend has a straight ULE mech mag and it rocks but to make the 2008 one also mech would be repetitive, not reaching any new market or making any big improvements.

- I would have also said only Pneumatic but again this has to do with marketability. There was another marker that was pneumatically operated if I'm not mistaken but the name escapes me because it's not commonly owned. If the 2008 mag is straight pneumatic, it may be too "exotic" to appeal to the general crowd, even if it is technically just as fast and reliable. Furthermore, as far as I can recall, shooting a pneumag is a far different feel from a microswitch or HES sensor. Again, it might only end up appealing to a small sector of potential buyers.

--> Break-Beam Eyes

- Almost all "high-end" and even some "low-end" markers these days with basically the exception of mags come with this stock and if it's to sell, i think it should be included. Even those within the mag community opt for BB eyes, so why not include it. As far as I know, BB eyes aren't mutually exclusive with Lvl 10. BB eyes seems to be what define "latest and best", and it doesn't contribute negatively in any way.

--> Vertical Breach with clamping feedneck

- Clamping feednecks should come standard or be threaded to a common standard that is easy to buy aftermarket ones for. Press-on feednecks just don't cut it anymore, and please don't make it a spyder-like one where you have to purchase the plastic elbows.

- People said there should be interchangable breeches, but I agree with those that say it's a limited market. Compared to those that use Halos, Vlocities, etc, the Qloader and Warpfeed community is very limited and another niche market. I suppose this totally depends on if the makers want to market to the general public or make this like a LE AO-forum marker.

--> Internalized airline from the valve

- I personally don't mind but if it's going to be marketable it has to be taken care of somehow. That being said, it should still be as easy to take off and service as unscrewing the thumbscrew and hitting the quick disconnect. Not sure how this would come about, but I'm sure you crazy people could figure it out.

--> Standard 45 frame // CCM 86* // UMF Frame

- Some people wanted Y-grips or vert frames. again, looking at the market, it doesn't seem to take well. Angels, markers known for vert frames, went to 45 frames. While some people may like it, it's just not a viable mass market option.

--> Dual Detents // self explanatory

--> A/C barrel threading // self explanatory


----------------------
Ultimately this turns the mag into what the standard industry marker has but with a mag valve. Then again, that is essentially what all the other markers out there have. I think the barrier from mags hitting the mainstream is that it doesn't include the basic components of what people look for in a present-day marker. It instead has alternative solutions and such. Not saying they are bad at all, but because they are so foreign, it really limits the appeal to the general public. What goes on this "2008 mag" will largely be determined by who the target audience is.

[longi]

A choice of a vertical or 65 deg all Pneumatic frame, yes i know it's old news now and it's well documented, but Tippmann managed to get away with it very successfully. Maybe a more efficient on/off. Couldn't give a monkey's about low pressure or running the airline in the body. I like the quirky look it has. A coulple of nicer bodies and rails would also be nice. Definitely Definitely all mech, look at many people queue up at the SP stand during a big game.