Handgun advice?

[Empyreal Rogue]

Kev, what part of Richmond do you live in again?

My roommate's boyfriend's house was broken into last night while they were asleep. I wonder if there's a crime surge in the city or if it's just a coincidence. Stay safe Kev.

[Hilltop Customs]

only warning shot someone breaking into my place would get is one to the legs....

warning shots have absolutely no use in a defence situation....peiod. You give away a ton of information(your armed, loaded, and your location) Also if you have family around, you could disorient them, along with deafening(sp?) them and yourself in a stiuation where verbal commands might save a life.

The only time I would even give a verbal warning of "stop dont move" is if the barrel was pointed at the guy, safety off, and finger on the trigger. From then on they would have to follow my every command exactly or hes getting shot. Hell, if no one else was around, I would make the perp dial 911 so I wouldnt have to take my finger off the trigger.

A warning shot/rack may make some people run away, but it may also make the guy click off HIS safety.



My neighbor had someone try to break in.....the neighbor waited for them to get through and put a shotty to their face within 2 steps in the house. Luckly they were smart enough to follow his commands and they only got locked up.

[bryceeden]

Thats what I learned in my Arizona State concealed weapons classes.

Maybe its one of those state to state things?

Another thing I learned was... if your worried about where you shoot someone because of the outcome, you probably shouldnt be shooting them.

Same in Utah classes. And whats taught to Police and such. The average gun fight is at a range of less than 10 feet, and it will be a point shooting situation not using sights but the two to the body one to the head is still(at least in Utah) how its taught and trained. If your shooting someone and your not shooting to kill you shouldn't be shooting.

Your instructer learned it from an internet tough guy BS. The goal is always simply to stop the threat (not to kill). Most reputable sources as such advise shooting center of mass unless situations (body armor) dictate otherwise.

It is honestly not adhered to by any reputable instruction, Good theory, bad in practice.

All "reputable instruction" at least in this state teaches shoot to kill and the two to the body one to the head theory(which saying originated in Police work in about the twentys not with internet tough guys)

For an untrained shooter sure unloading the full clip into the center of mass is the best way to go as a head shot is much more difficult when in fight or flight mode, but with training the two to the body one to the head rule is a good way to insure they don't shoot you back.

[Lohman446]

It flies in the face of FBI statistics that indicate most trained officers miss center of mass shots anyways (and totally miss hitting the target) in actual combat situations. To think that most civilians who carry, most with far too inadequate range time, are going to do better is dangerous at best.

[bryceeden]

It flies in the face of FBI statistics that indicate most trained officers miss center of mass shots anyways (and totally miss hitting the target) in actual combat situations. To think that most civilians who carry, most with far too inadequate range time, are going to do better is dangerous at best.

I'll give you that, but that doesn't mean that its not more effective or taught. Having been to a ton of law enforcment shooting days and competitions alot of cops don't spend near the time they should at the range and become way to dependent on thier sights which won't be of any use in a real gun fight. Muscle memory conditioning along with sensory overload and deprivation training(and lots of it) is the way to go, but most agencys don't do it or don't do it enough. Most civilians couldn't if they wanted too due to lack of resources.

[mclaggan123]

devilman hit the nail on the head. the best adivice is to let the xperts handle it if possible, if then be prepared by traing the whole family. your very welcome for the invitation and bring anyone you like. i personaly keep my shotty ready and my 357 revolver ready. another thing to remember is that a weapon upstairs in your bedroom does you no good if your downstairs watching tv. i carry when im home just for the reason of having my options open by having one close at hand. my best friend had an intruder break in while him and his wife watched tv in the living room and his gun was upstairs. the out come was he was shot and they stole a little over a $100 and he was defenseless. it might have been worse if he was armed but then again he would have had an option. he survived with just a few days in the hospital but it scared him for a long time. he has had more training than i have heard of since just to make sure it doesnt happen again. he lived in the country where people still kept there doors unlocked and knew everyone. it can happen anywhere to anyone so be prepaired. best wishes on your choice.

[Lohman446]

My mind is wondering if this two to the center of mass one to the head is an offshoot of IDPSA competitions against steel targets. If you hit a silohette twice in the center of mass and it does not fall you assume the spring is set too stiff for what you are shooting and aim to the highest point on it.

Regardless, let me set aside a scenario for you.


Its the middle of the night (likely between 12-3, but its worse for you if its between 4-5 generally). You find yourself on a paintball field and here yelling and shouting from the other end. You have to fumble with a trigger lock (or a cable lock) through your hopper, load your hopper, and effectively play paintball before the two or three people on the other team manage to eliminate you. Between you and them you have mutliple teammates that are unarmed, as unaware as you, and you have to manage to keep them from being eliminated.

Now imagine how hard that would be... and you have an idea on home invasion scenarios.

The good news (and how to apply it to your house):

The field is the field you have always played on and is not set up symetrically. In fact you have been able to set it up (to some degree) for just this scenario.

Tactically applied: You know your house better than almost anyone. You know the angles, the strong points, and the weak points. You have either reinforced key walls for the positions you think you will be in (there are several double drywall walls in my house - alternatives are such things as bookcases). You have given yourself nearly every tactical advantage possible. For instance in my house every light switch facing towards likely points of entrance or motion switches, my intruders will be bathed in light, I will not be. There are no straight lines without furniture obstructions between bedroom doors and likely entrances.

You and your teammates have a system in place

Tactically applied: You and your family have a plan. You have a reliable communication plan and you know what the other members are going to do given certain situations. Even better they are active participants in the plan, to the point of wielding a second weapon or calling the police.

You don't have to win, you only have to avoid being eliminated

Tactically applied: Your goal (depending on where / how you live) is not to win, it is not to drive the intruders from your home, it is to survive. To hold a position until the authorities arrive.

You have equipment uniquely suited to your position

Tactically applied: Although you should practice with and without them such things as laser sights give you a distinct advantage in tactical situations. You should not be dependent on them, but having them is not a bad thing. Other things obviously fall into this category.


You have practiced this scenario often

Tactically applied: You have a plan, you intend to live through this encounter, and you are far more likely too.

You are mentally prepared

Tactically applied: You are prepared to pull the trigger against your attacker. You have made the mental decision your life (and those of your family) are more important than your attackers. If there are any exceptions to this you have already made them in your mind.

You have a postgame plan

Tactically applied: You are prepared and accepting of the good chance you are at least going to be handcuffed and read your rights after such an encounter. You are prepared to make no statement to the authorities (other than those needed in directly securing the scene) without your lawyer. You know what lawyer you want and your family does as well.


Strengthen the good news portions. There are bad news portions too, but do what you can about the good first.

[thecavemankevin]

Hey Empy, i live on the south side near chippenham and hopkins.

I think the first thing I'm going to do is get a shotty for the immediate need (in the next week). Then i'm going to try out some hand guns and just see what works and fits best. I feel safe that no one will try and break in while they know someone is home and at night. We keep our monitored security system armed and doors locked. BTW, we did NOT have those stickers the security company gives you saying "monitored by XYZ security" before this happened. Honestly, just never got around to it. But i did put them up all over the place yesterday. I am also putting up security camera pods on the outside of the house soon.

Now let me ask you guys this, we don't have room for a large gun safe in our house right now (which is one reason i was leaning towards handgun). I also have two small children 4 years and 1.5 years. So I of course will keep this in a safe place from them. But what about making sure it is locked and safe, but not in a gun safe? I of course also want to make sure it is as secure as possible from getting stolen in the event of an break in while we aren't home.

What kind of inexpensive/reliable shotguns should i look for?


BTW, i will never give any "threat" any form of warning. There warning should have been there common sense and the locked door/window...that is all they get.
thanks again everyone

[Lohman446]

Mossberg and Remington both make some good, reasonably priced, defensive shotguns.

[Army]

OK, first of all, never, ever call it a "shotty", "gauge", or a "twelve". Doing so just sounds stupid

Women are fully capable of shooting any firearm they are comfortable with, including any large caliber revolver or semi-automatic. I suggest finding a range for her to shoot a number of different arms to find one she likes or tolerates, then buy a lot of ammo for her...AND THE DAUGHTER...to practice and familiarize. The more natural it becomes to handle weapons, the less fear they will have in using them.

Best house gun, is a 20 gauge, due to its smaller overall size, and better control in confined spaces. It is capable of the same payloads as a 12g, with less bulk and recoil. "Across the room" ranges will have the shot pattern at about fist size, meaning it must be aimed..no "point it in the general direction" BS. #4 shot has proven the best compromise between stopping power, wall penetration, and ease of shooting. At 5-15 feet, a 1oz load will most definitely leave a mark on a bad guy. Big buck loads are fine for game, but people are not near as tenacious as a deer, and heavy buck will penetrate walls as much as any pistol round (a .30'ish caliber ball of 000 buck at 1200fps, is nearly the same energy as a .38 special)

Take the girls out to shoot first to see what the like, then worry about the gun.

[Spider-TW]

It flies in the face of FBI statistics that indicate most trained officers miss center of mass shots anyways (and totally miss hitting the target) in actual combat situations. To think that most civilians who carry, most with far too inadequate range time, are going to do better is dangerous at best.

It is at least safe to say that if you have had the time to knowingly put two slugs in their torso and they are still standing, you should start considering the move up.

[Lohman446]

It is at least safe to say that if you have had the time to knowingly put two slugs in their torso and they are still standing, you should start considering the move up.

Fire towards the head and reconsider the retreat option

[dauntless15]

wel how old is your daugther . if she is like 14 or older you should look into a kel tech - small guns that pack a punch , i think they are 9 mil and i htink they have a 45 version . but a kel tech is small and fast fireing with 7 round chaber ( i belive ) but if you want top protection go get a freking glock and blow that perps head off . if he comes into your house you kill him on the spot so he cant testify against you in court and lie about it . any well aimed shot will do with any gun . even a 1200 fps bb gun . be safe


chris vb

[thecavemankevin]

daughters are 4 and 1 &1/2, so they wont be firing any of these for quite a while.

[Steelrat]

My mind is wondering if this two to the center of mass one to the head is an offshoot of IDPSA competitions against steel targets. If you hit a silohette twice in the center of mass and it does not fall you assume the spring is set too stiff for what you are shooting and aim to the highest point on it.

It's a body armor drill.