So...How's it going?

[going_home]

"Beware the military industrial complex."
January 17 1961
Dwight D Eisenhower

What he feared has become reality.
Presidential elections are just a shell game.

[Nobody]

Military industrial complex. I love it when someone learns something new, but don't quite understand the meaning of it.

So, you bring this up why? Are you saying that it's bad? Are you saying that we, as a nation are in it now, in regards to Ukraine and China? Or are you just questioning it's relevance to history? Cause I hate to tell you, but it didn't start in 1961. Hell, it didn't start in this century. And I find it quite funny that a GOP supporter would even mention it, as the gun industry dumps truckload of money to republican politicians in DC. So, what are you asking?

I can talk about the far reaching aspects from the beginning, or the history of it from the various big time players(mainly Krupp, Maxim, Vickers), or how in today's defense industry that the military has been told to become stupider and how outside defense contractors have gouged the US taxpayers billions and never being held accountable for anything but pipedreams and failures.

So what is your point?

[CitsejaMkraDehT]

how outside defense contractors have gouged the US taxpayers billions and never being held accountable for anything but pipedreams and failures.

Woah there buddy. I work at LM and had a recruiter from AWS gov cloud reach out to me about a job and I can tell you... we don't gouged..... too much.

From what I've seen most of the individual workers in these places do try and make a good product. Whether the VPs, CEOs, and etc. care or know well... that remains to be seen.

I think the movie "the pentagon wars" is the perfect example of how work in the MIC goes. Never ending scope creep and often times people don't want to hear the "NO" that comes with that attached price point.

[Pyrate Jim]

Eisenhower was an isolationist, refusing to prepare the Country for War until after Pearl Harbor. Even after turning War production over to the private sector to assist Europe.
And what happened? Look up "Willow Run". Within three years Ford Motors was building aircraft, churning out a new B-47 Bomber once an hour.
They got juicy Gov't contracts and gave tens of thousands of workers a living wage. Less than a decade after the great depression.
Historically speaking, any time America has been on a "War Footing" we have come out of it stronger than we were before. And it's due to the people, not the Government.

[CitsejaMkraDehT]

Eisenhower was an isolationist, refusing to prepare the Country for War until after Pearl Harbor. Even after turning War production over to the private sector to assist Europe.
And what happened? Look up "Willow Run". Within three years Ford Motors was building aircraft, churning out a new B-47 Bomber once an hour.
They got juicy Gov't contracts and gave tens of thousands of workers a living wage. Less than a decade after the great depression.
Historically speaking, any time America has been on a "War Footing" we have come out of it stronger than we were before. And it's due to the people, not the Government.

Eisenhower was well after WW2... so i'm not sure what Pearl Harbor has to do with anything.

War is profitable, it's not due to the people or the government. People and governments pay oodles of money for weaponry/technology that gives them a sense of security and show casing the product works. Example : F-35

[Nobody]

Eisenhower was an isolationist, refusing to prepare the Country for War until after Pearl Harbor.Eisenhower was not in charge of war. Wven though we as a nation, were isolationist, mainly by way of Congress, putting up the polocies to stay away and out of Europe, specifically. Saying we were not prepared is a false statement. The US, was preparing but it was at a slow pace. We had various plans for possibilities of war against many nations. Plan Orange was against the Japan specifically. But if you are referring to Roosevelt, as Eisenhower was only president in 1952, after Truman, the yes, obviously, everythinghe did was going to happen after Pearl harbor, as that happened at the end of 1941.
Even after turning War production over to the private sector to assist Europe.civilian production was started in 1939, as Hitler declared war on England. Even with isolationist policies, war production to help England was shortly started. Not to mention Lend-Lease and the trade for bases for war material. While you could aay that we were not churning out Essex fleet carriers, or M4 Shermans on a daily basis, information shared by the British was paramount in the US's on preparationfor the oncoming war. Remeber, after Dunkirk, England had lost a huge amount of equipment and looked to the US to buy up anything that thry can. This is were the Thompson SMG, while being ready and availablewas sold readily to the English. You couldonly do that IF the various civil manufacturershad already geared up production BEFORE our entry into the war as well as thr US pjtting out governmentcontracts for said war material
And what happened? Look up "Willow Run". Within three years Ford Motors was building aircraft, churning out a new B-47 Bomber once an hour. I hope you meant B-17, as the B-47 was a post war Air Force bomber that was made around 1948. Cool aircraft, as it was a 2nd gen medium jet bomber. Now, the hour for a bomber, is generally considered publicity stunts and made for war news reels, as there were multiples of stunts like that. Liberty and Victory ships, destroyers, and the like. While it was "made" in that hour(which is a very unrealistic time frame, but i will go with it), it was generally finished afterwards as quick workand quality work are never in the same build.
They got juicy Gov't contracts and gave tens of thousands of workers a living wage. Less than a decade after the great depression.companies not people got those contracts, and though companies did have to pay skilled workers, especially specialists to make and design those weapons, it did come at a great cost. The wage was generally fare, but the cost of living was also very low, comparably. In WW1, John Browning made most of his fortune, as he bet on the end of the war, versus the start, as he produced his machine guns, automatic rifle and pistols at near cost.
Historically speaking, any time America has been on a "War Footing" we have come out of it stronger than we were before. And it's due to the people, not the Government. so you are in favor of the MIC, as you see only what will come, not what is happening. Now this works, IF you are the British East India trading company or the Dutch trading company, as they were private comapnies, not beholden to any one government that got into some nasty warfare back in the 18th and 19th centuries. And while you could in today's landscape become a private military contractor, or lend yourself out to governments to become a mercanry, you still need a government to allow you to do those nasty things. As much as you are speaking of socialist values of the people being in control of the company(Karl Marx would be proud of your views), it is not correct. As, to be on a war footing, that only truly happened in 1942. That is were the economywas all pushed by the governmentto a certain goal. Hence why none of the car companies released any new models of cars. Since then, there has not been an interruption of any of the services and products we see and use daily. As well as, the economy doesn'tjust react to one thing, as it is a multitude of pushing and pulling by all. It is as much a living and breathing thing as you or I. Also, one of the great things that helped make that great economy was the simple and oft forgotten fact that in Europe, in Russia(to an extent), to North Africa, to most of Asia was all destroyed. Everyone but the US lost their infrastructureto produce products. Even though England was ok on its infrastructure, it was so broke by a wartime economy, and then shortly dismantling its empire(freeing colonized countries like India and such), that its economy was arse over head. So, the US after it was done making bullets, rifles and bombs, was making all the pots and pans, and clothing that was sold throughoutthe world. And that laster near 25 years after 1945. But today, unless we do enter WW3 and on the same scale as WW2, you won'tsee that again.

Oh boy, so much wrong...

[Pyrate Jim]

Here's one to consider.
Since the SCOTUS ruling on Presidential Immunity, AOC has already declared She will start impeachment proceedings on Judges.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought "impeachment" was reserved for elected officials and didn't apply to appointed citizens. It's certainly never happened before that I've heard of.
And this guy (from AP news);

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/house-democrat-is-proposing-a-constitutional-amendment-to-reverse-supreme-court-s-immunity-decision/ar-BB1pmMYf?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=DCTS&cvid=9593b20c920f4a61a73f81cb9b0bb716&ei=9

Now, wait. Democrats want to impeach the Supreme Court members they don't like, add an amendment to the Constitution and increase the number of judges in the SCOTUS.

All because of one man.

[Nobody]

Here's one to consider.
Since the SCOTUS ruling on Presidential Immunity, AOC has already declared She will start impeachment proceedings on Judges.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought "impeachment" was reserved for elected officials and didn't apply to appointed citizens. It's certainly never happened before that I've heard of.
And this guy (from AP news);

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/house-democrat-is-proposing-a-constitutional-amendment-to-reverse-supreme-court-s-immunity-decision/ar-BB1pmMYf?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=DCTS&cvid=9593b20c920f4a61a73f81cb9b0bb716&ei=9

Now, wait. Democrats want to impeach the Supreme Court members they don't like, add an amendment to the Constitution and increase the number of judges in the SCOTUS.

All because of one man.

I see that you have ignored the thorough bashing of your last post. Good to see that you don't worry about past mistakes.

In the history of SCOTUS, there was one attempted impeachment before in the 19th century. It wasn't carried through. Impeachment is the only mechanism that is in the constitution(you remember that thing right? Basis of our government?), that one can use to get rid of people that you can't fire. Generally, one does not have to do so with SCOTUS, as they are supposed to act in the laws, regardless of where their personal politics land.

Now for AOC, it is not a question of whether or not she wishes to bring an impeachment up, it is what would she list as charges? As much as I don't like some of the justices, and what they have done, what would the formal charges be?

But the thing is, you should know that already. This is exactly what the twitter/maga caucus does. Bring up outlandish proposals that will seemingly go nowhere just to get attention.

[CitsejaMkraDehT]

Here's one to consider.
Since the SCOTUS ruling on Presidential Immunity, AOC has already declared She will start impeachment proceedings on Judges.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought "impeachment" was reserved for elected officials and didn't apply to appointed citizens. It's certainly never happened before that I've heard of.
And this guy (from AP news);

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/house-democrat-is-proposing-a-constitutional-amendment-to-reverse-supreme-court-s-immunity-decision/ar-BB1pmMYf?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=DCTS&cvid=9593b20c920f4a61a73f81cb9b0bb716&ei=9

Now, wait. Democrats want to impeach the Supreme Court members they don't like, add an amendment to the Constitution and increase the number of judges in the SCOTUS.

All because of one man.

Who cares if it's because of "one man".

I don't care about what AOC thinks or does but what the supreme court did was so politically biased. Some of these justices are so in love with the guy they can't make a decision based on neutrality. Where's your outrage over Clarence Thomas and his secret bribes? https://www.propublica.org/article/c...vel-gifts-crow

They ruled that the president can't be brought up on charges when enacting with "official orders" and we aren't allowed to question his motives. So now we have to play some stupid guessing game in which what court is going to determine is "official orders" and "private citizen". You wanna guess why this ruling was never required before? Or are you gonna play dumb?

I mean I know it's complicated for the folks like you to understand but this "one man" has been the only man in the history of the presidency to incite a riot that stormed a capital building. He riled up his delusional fan base who think the voting was rigged. I swear you guys would make Donald Trump king and then wonder why democracy got stripped away. Hell his vice president told him to knock this **** off and won't endorse him this time. How dense do you have to be?

If you guys were the patriots you claimed to be... What would Ben Franklin, George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Thomas Jefferson think about this?

[Pyrate Jim]

If you guys were the patriots you claimed to be... What would Ben Franklin, George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Thomas Jefferson think about this?

All those you name were vehemently anti-democracy. So much so that even the word is not in the Declaration, the Constitution nor the Bill of Rights.

Happy Fourth of July!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/rooke-the-party-running-on-saving-democracy-wants-to-rig-their-election/ar-BB1ppCQk?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=DCTS&cvid=5437439caf05450e87f6ea87dcd750f0&ei=13

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzG7vVLAKqQ

[Nobody]

All those you name were vehemently anti-democracy. So much so that even the word is not in the Declaration, the Constitution nor the Bill of Rights.

Happy Fourth of July!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/rooke-the-party-running-on-saving-democracy-wants-to-rig-their-election/ar-BB1ppCQk?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=DCTS&cvid=5437439caf05450e87f6ea87dcd750f0&ei=13

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzG7vVLAKqQ

I do love that people will wrap themselves in the constitution and be bullied by the names of our forefathers and founders, right up until they don't want or can't use them anymore, then jetison them so fast, their head would spin.

You don't know what is in the minds of the forefathers, as they are dead. Any writing done about them is biased, unless it is a direct quote.

Besides, all those people were anti-democracy as they had no hand in the Revolution or establishing a government, the same government that we have been using unless tru.p gets elected. Washington, could have been declared king, refused that notion(I believe he said that we just got done fighting our last king)but served 2 4 year terms and then left. How anti-democratic can you get.

So, can I ask Jym to please stop writing, or someone take away his keyboard again, or maybe check his meds. He is making even less sense than normal. And I wouldn't want to verbally beat up a handicapped person.

[CitsejaMkraDehT]

All those you name were vehemently anti-democracy. So much so that even the word is not in the Declaration, the Constitution nor the Bill of Rights.

Happy Fourth of July!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/rooke-the-party-running-on-saving-democracy-wants-to-rig-their-election/ar-BB1ppCQk?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=DCTS&cvid=5437439caf05450e87f6ea87dcd750f0&ei=13

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzG7vVLAKqQ

So now you're pivoting to the word "democracy" ?

Can you even pick a topic and stay on topic? My reference to those individuals was due to the fact that you want to essentially elect a dictator / king.

I'm sure it's useful for you to gloss over the fact that a sitting president tried to incite a riot and I'm sure you gladly won't answer that. Or you will play stupid.

[Pyrate Jim]

You don't know what is in the minds of the forefathers, as they are dead. Any writing done about them is biased, unless it is a direct quote.

What were they thinking? Dude, they wrote it down and signed it. They called it "The United States Constitution".

Can you even pick a topic and stay on topic? My reference to those individuals was due to the fact that you want to essentially elect a dictator / king.

My apologies if some folks are too dense to keep up with a rapidly changing landscape, they being obsessively fixated with the one man whom they claim is a "threat to democracy".
Donald Trump is not a threat to Democracy ~ He's a threat to Democrats.

[CitsejaMkraDehT]

What were they thinking? Dude, they wrote it down and signed it. They called it "The United States Constitution".


My apologies if some folks are too dense to keep up with a rapidly changing landscape, they being obsessively fixated with the one man whom they claim is a "threat to democracy".
Donald Trump is not a threat to Democracy ~ He's a threat to Democrats.

You didn't even know the right president for WW2. Glad to see you just drop that topic immediately once you were proven that your statements were wildly incorrect.

Donald trump is a threat to democracy. He literally called his supporters who stormed the capital "hostages".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGjQPIs_HCg

How many of Trumps advisors are now in prison / tried for crimes? Steve Bannon, Sidney Powell, Scott Hall, Michael Cohen, Paul Manafort, Roger Stone....

Do I need to go on? Or do I need to bring up all his past lawsuits and his current lawsuits? The saying "where this is smoke there is fire" has some validity unless you want to just stick your head in the sand.

If Trump is some great guy like you think he is, then why is his ex VP not endorsing him? It must be that Mike Pence is secretly a democrat mole designed to disrupt his 2nd campaign I'm sure.


Looking forward to your mental gymnastics.

[Tunaman]

Who cares if it's because of "one man".

I don't care about what AOC thinks or does but what the supreme court did was so politically biased. Some of these justices are so in love with the guy they can't make a decision based on neutrality. Where's your outrage over Clarence Thomas and his secret bribes? https://www.propublica.org/article/c...vel-gifts-crow

They ruled that the president can't be brought up on charges when enacting with "official orders" and we aren't allowed to question his motives. So now we have to play some stupid guessing game in which what court is going to determine is "official orders" and "private citizen". You wanna guess why this ruling was never required before? Or are you gonna play dumb?

I mean I know it's complicated for the folks like you to understand but this "one man" has been the only man in the history of the presidency to incite a riot that stormed a capital building. He riled up his delusional fan base who think the voting was rigged. I swear you guys would make Donald Trump king and then wonder why democracy got stripped away. Hell his vice president told him to knock this **** off and won't endorse him this time. How dense do you have to be?

If you guys were the patriots you claimed to be... What would Ben Franklin, George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Thomas Jefferson think about this?

They would have hung Biden and Mayorkas for what letting 10 million illegals in, and using the DOJ for lawfare would get you hung too. Go to your safe room and start screaming at the sky. They say this helps with your condition. Ask Nobody for the keys to the room.