IRAQ THREAD originaly "Seems at least one Brit agrees with me....er us."

[Collegeboy]

.Here is the back ground to it. As you can see the UN partition Plan was adopted by the UN. The Palestinians didn't agree to it as you will see. Turns out it is 1947 not 48.

http://www.mideastweb.org/181.htm (pretty nonbiased for its name)

Now to Kuwait. The US was part of a multinational government to restore power to Kuwait and to take it back from the Iraqis. The US went in to reestablish he government before the Iraqi occupation. So they could not internationally force Kuwait around to resign out of Kuwait. For they did not go in and establish like minded thinkers.

Now when you go into a country and establish a new government. You will of course make sure the new rulers are like minded to you. Now since that, Iraq could back out of OPEC for the reason for trying to control their oil sales. It would be fishy, but none the less they can get away with it.

Kuwait and Iraqi situations are two entirely different things

[cphilip]

http://www.nysun.com/sunarticle.asp?artID=608

[cphilip]

Remember another time we didn't want to get involved and ignored stuff?

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/allied.htm

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2000/06/000626-declass-usia1.htm

Your reading assignments for the night!

Isolationism back in "the day". We realy didn't want to get into that one either.

[MarkM]

OK ILBC was meant as 1 Lone Brain Cell, did put the brackets saying "think that was right?

I have and did read the moderators comments...my comment was made that this entire thread is in the no no's list as one that will incite flames...I didn't make that up, it's for all to see in the rules..

College Boy reread your own posts...enough people seem to ask you to do that often enough so don't feel put out that someone new (to these type of threads ) has asked.

aaron_mag didn't quote you, just agreed about your pointing out the lack of response to a question you asked.

Shartley you may have been right about not attracting the attention 'cos with the best will in the world all three of you aren't agreeing with what I have said per se (in the previous post I mean). I may have stirred the nest a little but that is all. Anyway all night meeting tonight at the UN to discuss final resolution and its possible implications

[MarkM]

Originally posted by Collegeboy


That is what I do, cphillip. I study history from both sides, that is how I get the knowledge I get. I don't know how it is at Clemson, but my teachers NEVER tell me what to think or how to think. The teach us to be historians. How to be able to read a book and weigh its view points against all others that you know. And then make a judgment on is it crap or is it truth. They tells us facts (this happened on this day, and that on that, this happened and so forth), we then discuss the reasons and implementations with each other. The teacher normally only chimes in when we say the incorrect thing. Like this year, well it was actually this year, and so forth. I have a daily disagreement with one of my history teachers (who wrote the book that the movie Armistead was based on, as well as many other books dealing with US foreign policy). Everyday we both chime in with our opinions (He is one who will chime in with his opinions). Even though this guy is a PHD and knows a lot more then I do, I still can disagree with him. I normally shut down (meaning out argue) the grad students in the class too. And he appreciates that. That is what makes a historian a historian.

I get tired of everyone counting me as some sponge that soaks up everything people tells them and spits it out as truth. That is very insulting. My opinions I have gained not through others opinions, if it would have you all would have changed my opinions by now, but rather through my own research and such.

And to get back to the discussion. With US planes flying over head protecting the northern fly zone and the Kurds. Do you think that Saddam will be able to get his troops near the Kurdish villages without something happening?

aaron_mag: I am a history, economics, and Russian major with a minor probably in Poly sci (since I have to have that many classes any ways), what does that make me.

College Boy, just in case you had forgotten where you said it Oh and I left the entire post to be fair and so you can't argue that I took your comment out of context. (I'm sure you will but then I did start my post that started this flurry of posts I started it by saying I wasn't going to fill a page with quotes)

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by cphilip
Remember another time we didn't want to get involved and ignored stuff?

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/allied.htm

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2000/06/000626-declass-usia1.htm

Your reading assignments for the night!

Isolationism back in "the day". We realy didn't want to get into that one either.

You can not compare Hitler and Nazi Germany with Saddam and his government. They are two polar opposites of each other. I can go back and use Hitler to back any claim I want to. The matter is well this war do anything? My answer has always been no. NO government in Iraq that is put in power by the US will last long, look into Iran. The government will be overthrown and a pro terrorist, fundamentalist government will be installed. etc..........

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by MarkM


College Boy, just in case you had forgotten where you said it Oh and I left the entire post to be fair and so you can't argue that I took your comment out of context. (I'm sure you will but then I did start my post that started this flurry of posts I started it by saying I wasn't going to fill a page with quotes)

And how did you get that I said that since I out argue grad students that makes me know it all?

[MarkM]

Hey first cast and I get a bite

CB just think about it..you're a seasoned debater you really need me to explain inference and intent?

[shartley]

Originally posted by Collegeboy


You can not compare Hitler and Nazi Germany with Saddam and his government. They are two polar opposites of each other. I can go back and use Hitler to back any claim I want to. The matter is well this war do anything? My answer has always been no. NO government in Iraq that is put in power by the US will last long, look into Iran. The government will be overthrown and a pro terrorist, fundamentalist government will be installed. etc..........

Must be nice to know it all... and to know the future... without any doubts. Too bad you are not running a darn thing. Or those who ARE don't seem to value your input and expertise. Or you would not have time to post here. LOL

[Collegeboy]

But when it happens remember what I said. When Americna boys are back in 10 years, remeber what I said. Ok.

And MarkM

I know what I wrote, I know what I said, and I still have no clue what you are talking about.

[FactsOfLife]

Originally posted by Collegeboy


You can not compare Hitler and Nazi Germany with Saddam and his government. They are two polar opposites of each other. I can go back and use Hitler to back any claim I want to. The matter is well this war do anything? My answer has always been no. NO government in Iraq that is put in power by the US will last long, look into Iran. The government will be overthrown and a pro terrorist, fundamentalist government will be installed. etc..........

Useful Idiot, Baloney. The government that will be put in place is going to be made up of Iraqis.

And as for the downfall of the Iranian government to the militant islamists, you can thank Jimmy Carter for that blunder. But then, you probably wouldn't want to show one of your own kind as being responsible for anything right?

It's painfully obvious you get your history out of school books. And you wonder why people bring up age as a qualification of knowledge?

It's because you haven't LIVED LONG ENOUGH yet to know anything.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
But when it happens remember what I said. When Americna boys are back in 10 years, remeber what I said. Ok.

And MarkM

I know what I wrote, I know what I said, and I still have no clue what you are talking about.

[ShooterJM]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
.Here is the back ground to it. As you can see the UN partition Plan was adopted by the UN. The Palestinians didn't agree to it as you will see. Turns out it is 1947 not 48.

I was beginning to think nobody had read my post.

Eh '47 '48 no big deal, a lot of people refer to it as '48 for some reason. Probably because that was the main thrust of the implementation period. You're very close, but semantics play a huge part in this (witness the arguments over the choice of the word "some" over "the" in UN 242 and 338).

It was the Arab rejection of Resolution 181 that prevented adoption of the recommendation which the Resolution contained. The United Nations abandoned the proposal contained in Resolution 181. In its place, the Security Council adopted Resolutions 242 and 338 which provided a substantially different means for the settlement.

Resolution 181 has never been part of the agreed foundation for the peace process between Israel and the Palestinians. The letters of invitation to the Madrid Peace Conference in 91 (92?) say the same thing.

Also, the Arab states and the Palestinians for decades have claimed that Resolution 181 is null and void. Article 19 of the Palestinian National Covenant declars that UN 181 and Israel as a whole are illegal.

Basically the only people who still think it's legal are most of the non arab populace.

Also note in my previous post where I outlined International law governing the liberation of illegaly occupied territories. Remember that there is no soverign palestinian state.

EDIT: Man, I used the word "indeed" in sentence. Had to change it......it was WAY to high on the dork scale.

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by FactsOfLife


Useful Idiot, Baloney. The government that will be put in place is going to be made up of Iraqis.

And as for the downfall of the Iranian government to the militant islamists, you can thank Jimmy Carter for that blunder. But then, you probably wouldn't want to show one of your own kind as being responsible for anything right?

It's painfully obvious you get your history out of school books. And you wonder why people bring up age as a qualification of knowledge?

It's because you haven't LIVED LONG ENOUGH yet to know anything.

The government could be made up of monkeys and nothing will change. Any government put into power after a US lead invasion in which was not the original power will be thought of has a puppet of the US government, or a extremely good friend of the US. Even if in the slightest of causes the US actually allows a fair election, that still will not matter. It will still be conceived as a pro US government. Which means the second US troops step out, bye bye government. Hello terrorist supporting, fundamentalist, general pain in the read end government. Hello to a new war. etc......

Carter isn't my own kind. I am not a democrat.

No Sharltey you couldn't be more wrong. Does it surprise you that your "logic" hasn't won me over. Maybe it isn't me, maybe it is you. Your own post could describe you. I don't like to argue and shy away from it a lot of times. But I do like to discuss. But these discussions always turns into arguments. Why? People don't like change. They don't like to be asked to look at it in a different way; they don't like to be asked to look at it on both sides of the coin.

I never said I was intelligent, I never said I was smart. In fact I have said that I don't know anything when it comes to this world, and in fact no one knows anything. Experience is good when it is not tainted. You used your example of you being stationed in a foreign country and the "hatred" you received to say that people in other countries hate the US. Well Duh. But you fail to point out that you were a military member, a foreign military member. IN a foreign country. A lot of foreigners hate that US troops are stationed in their country especially after the cold war, even during it, so they have a hatred to US soldiers stationed there, but they do not hate Americans. You used your experience with terrorist to say what makes a terrorist. But you fail to say that you are dealing with already brainwashed zealots who are already a terrorist. But you haven't dealt with that little kid walking down the street in Palestine who in 10 years might become a terrorist. Since the argument of what makes a terrorist, your experience with preformed terrorist prejudices your outlook. (I made the above formed conclusions based on your statements that you dealt with terrorist, and that your were stationed oversees).

And what has MarkM pointed out, that he can misread a statement?

This is my last statement for tonight, I need to go and read a book for class tomorrow and am already on my third cup of coffee since 8. So i bid you all farewell for tonight. Don't bash me too bad.

[1stdeadeye]

Gotcha!

Originally posted by Collegeboy
.Here is the back ground to it. As you can see the UN partition Plan was adopted by the UN. The Palestinians didn't agree to it as you will see. Turns out it is 1947 not 48.

http://www.mideastweb.org/181.htm (pretty nonbiased for its name)

Now to Kuwait. The US was part of a multinational government to restore power to Kuwait and to take it back from the Iraqis. The US went in to reestablish he government before the Iraqi occupation. So they could not internationally force Kuwait around to resign out of Kuwait. For they did not go in and establish like minded thinkers.

Now when you go into a country and establish a new government. You will of course make sure the new rulers are like minded to you. Now since that, Iraq could back out of OPEC for the reason for trying to control their oil sales. It would be fishy, but none the less they can get away with it.

Kuwait and Iraqi situations are two entirely different things

First, Look up at ShooterJM's post! Gotcha there!

Second Kuwait does whatever the US tells them too at this point in time. Multinational force my Aunt Fanny, it was a US operation supported by the British with UN backing. Do not rewrite history. The US formed, and led the forces that liberated Kuwait and restored the government who is deeply indebted to us for this service. Had George Bush (sr.) asked Kuwait to pull out of Opec in 1992 do you think they would have refused?

As for establishing like minded rulers, you are wrong. In Afghanistan, we helped set up a framework and then turned it over to them to form a government. Will it work, who knows. It is definitely not a puppet regime. Why would the US handle IRAQ differently. You are not giving examples to support your claims while I am. Interesting!
Try to use examples after 1960 if you can find them. (Vietnam doesn't dount because we never set up that government. The French did! )