From America...

[Kai]

Originally posted by AssassN
Edit: O ya and if you dont like liveing here get out. No one makes them live here they should all go to an island where i cant hear about them.

That is the kind of statement that really angers me. (IGNORANT) It is about as un-American as anything I can think of. If EVERYONE who didn't like the way things were done in America, NOTHING would EVER be changed.


The founders of our country didn't like living in a British controlled America...

Abolitionists didn't like living in a slave-owning America...

Martin Luther King didn't like living in a racist America...


It is EVERY citizen's RIGHT and DUTY to let the higher-ups know when change is needed.

[Rooster]

"It is EVERY citizen's RIGHT and DUTY to let the higher-ups know when change is needed."

The thing is, you are wrong. Your ilk is wrong. The majority say the war is justified. Do you not beleive in democracy? Do you feel you should be allowed to dictate to us how we should think? Do you think you are some how superior and thus justified to over-rule the majority with your ignorant beleifs?

Change is needed, thats for sure. The kind of scum that breaks the law to prove some kind of insignifcant point needs to be punished, and severely. Their actions should not be tolerated.

[FactsOfLife]

Originally posted by Jack_Dubious


A lot of people gave thier lives so we could have the freedom to protest. Only thing "un-American" here is your statement. Why dont you spit on the flag while you are at it.

JDub

I'd only spit on the flag to put it out, when one of you anti americans sets it on fire.

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Jonneh
You cannot blame the protestors for blocking streets and bringing transport to a halt because it is the only way that their message will be heard. Imagine if the protests had no news or tv coverage at all. They would just be seen as a bunch of guys being anti american (note: disliking bush and his actions is NOT being anti-american).

Uhm, yes I can. Your rights end where mine begin. What happens when the protestors little stunt causes an ambulance not to make it to a heart attack victim? Should we then not charge each and every protestor who BROKE THE LAW leading to that persons death with involuntary manslaughter. Seems fair to me.

Protest, get your permits and shut down the streets that way. No emergency response personel will be trapped then. This grandstanding is immorral, not protected and most definitely not a right. I say lock them up for a few days as well as fine them, maybe then they would think a little bit harder about their actions, plus they will be martyrs then. Look at last years teacher strike here in Central Jersey, the judge sent the teachers to jail for contempt of court for rufusing to end their illegal strike. The strike was miraculously settled the day the teacher's union leader was set to be jailed!

[CasingBill]

Have to jump in

It is people like collegeboy and kai who go to the protests. They go there not to make a statement but to disrupt. At each of the large protests in NYC there have been police officers which have to be taken to hospitals and treated for injuries. Not the protesters. What are you protesting when you hold up a sign that says <B>*POOF*</B> Bush? Rude and outrageous. It is a right but it comes with price. These protesters are never willing to pay that price. They are the ones who flee to Canada when it was their time to serve!!!


I would also have to assume that Kai is a communist by your sig which was removed. That picture of Lenin was real appropriate.

[Kai]

Originally posted by Rooster
"It is EVERY citizen's RIGHT and DUTY to let the higher-ups know when change is needed."

The thing is, you are wrong. Your ilk is wrong. The majority say the war is justified. Do you not beleive in democracy? Do you feel you should be allowed to dictate to us how we should think? Do you think you are some how superior and thus justified to over-rule the majority with your ignorant beleifs?

Change is needed, thats for sure. The kind of scum that breaks the law to prove some kind of insignifcant point needs to be punished, and severely. Their actions should not be tolerated.

In some cases, illegal protesting IS a good thing. (Not in this particular one, though. I don't feel strongly enough that the war should not proceed to start breaking laws.) BUT, in the case of MLK...it worked. It worked well, and accomplished a good thing.

I believe in a democracy that hears BOTH sides of the story, not just the one with the majority backing it. The whole idea behind our first ammendmant is that EVERYONE can be heard. It is not neccessarily trying to force ideas on those who disagree, but trying to get the attention of the people in power, and make a difference.

Like I said, I do not support illegal protests of the war.

Oh, and Casingbill...I do not apprieciate you assuming that I would only attend a rally to disrupt, and not make a statement. There is reasoning behind my anti-war beliefs...I didn't just join a cause to be trendy.

The Lenin sig will be making a comeback as soon as this messiness with Iraq is over. We can discuss that in a PM if you would like...

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Kai


In some cases, illegal protesting IS a good thing. (Not in this particular one, though. I don't feel strongly enough that the war should not proceed to start breaking laws.) BUT, in the case of MLK...it worked. It worked well, and accomplished a good thing.

Unless you are doing it to garner your own freedom or equality, it is never justified. (See MLK or Ghandi) The law is the law. If you were protesting an unjust law, maybe. But when protestors stop traffic, etc. they are putting the rest of us at risk. They do not have that right.

I believe in a democracy that hears BOTH sides of the story, not just the one with the majority backing it. The whole idea behind our first ammendmant is that EVERYONE can be heard. It is not neccessarily trying to force ideas on those who disagree, but trying to get the attention of the people in power, and make a difference.
So basically, you just want to force your opinion onto the people in power! I guess you subscribe to the old addage "He who screams louder is right"? (or in your case left )

I didn't just join a cause to be trendy.

Why did you then?

[adam68c]

Our school newspaper had a great picture on the front page the other day. It showed a couple guys with a grill cooking some hamburgers out on the plaza in fron of the student center. The thing that made me laugh and tell those guys right on was the fact that in the background were a couple of students who were protesting the war by fasting. Hahahaha imagine not eating for a long time and then haveing the smell of grilling hamburgers in your nose.

[CasingBill]

hamburgers?

Now thats funny.

Isn't it so ironic how the people who preach tolerance are so intolerant? They can't stand the fact that they lost in the court of public opinion. They will just keep on protesting. They say they support the troops thats why they want to bring them home. This is such a lie. They support the troops as much as they support the police. Tolerance? What a crock!! They are intolerant!

[Jonneh]

Re: hamburgers?

Originally posted by CasingBill
Now thats funny.

Isn't it so ironic how the people who preach tolerance are so intolerant? They can't stand the fact that they lost in the court of public opinion. They will just keep on protesting. They say they support the troops thats why they want to bring them home. This is such a lie. They support the troops as much as they support the police. Tolerance? What a crock!! They are intolerant!

What on earth are you talking about?

[oldsoldier]

Read the amendments to the bill of rights. "you cannot block roadways..." THAT violates it right there. Seems that most protesters do it for one thing; because it gets them "seen". However, is it right to violate other people's rights to further your cause? That makes you no better than, hell, no better than Saddam in the broad scheme of things.
Feel free to protest all you want. Do it peaceably. But, also know that me an my brethren will remind you, wuite vocally, that if you think this is about oil, you need to go back to school.


On a side note; why are there hardly any arrests at pro troop rallies? Oh, and why is it that as soon as the hear about a pro America, pro troop, or pro Bush rally, they go out there and start something? Is THAT right?

[cphilip]

Freedom of speach is a good thing but remember it works both ways. I have the freedom to call you an idiot for your views if I feel they are not based on facts and logic....

Can we keep this to a Freedom of speach issue and not go political and into the Iraq situation here? If so this can stay open but we already have an Iraq thread so if it drifts that way it will close.

[shartley]

Originally posted by cphilip
Freedom of speach is a good thing but remember it works both ways. I have the freedom to call you an idiot for your views if I feel they are not based on facts and logic....

[CasingBill]

I will have to stay out

I can't not get political. Emotions are running high right now. There just seems to be a double standard when liberals get out to have their peaceful protests. The police seem to always get hurt. Their protests seem to block me from getting to work or getting home or whatever. Getting in the way of someone trying to get somewhere is just wrong. I'm done. I can't not be political. sorry Cp. I'm out

[Kai]

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye
Originally posted by Kai


Unless you are doing it to garner your own freedom or equality, it is never justified. (See MLK or Ghandi) The law is the law. If you were protesting an unjust law, maybe. But when protestors stop traffic, etc. they are putting the rest of us at risk. They do not have that right.

So basically, you just want to force your opinion onto the people in power! I guess you subscribe to the old addage "He who screams louder is right"? (or in your case left )

I didn't just join a cause to be trendy.

Why did you then?

What you said about illegal protesting only being good when fighting for freedoms, I agree with. Like I said...I, in NO way, support illegal protests of the war.

I do not want to FORCE my oppinions on anyone, but the only way the government will know of my discontent with the war is to voice it. One of the beautiful things about America is that we CAN get things done with protests.

On a side note though, I no longer protest in order to get a stop to the war. I am a realist, and I know that once the gears started turning...there was no chance of Bush pulling out of Iraq. The main reason I even have anti-war messages in my signature is to let people know that not EVERYONE here at AO supports the war.

Deadeye, I will shoot you a PM concerning my views on the war.