wow Affirmative Action Upheld In Supreme Court

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • 1stdeadeye
    Still around????
    • Jun 2002
    • 8501

    #31
    Uhm...WRONG!

    Originally posted by Collegeboy
    Want to get rid of AA, fund schools evenly. Take away the states control of the schools and make it a federal governments control. That way all students have an equal chance at receiving an equal education and an equal chance at making in the world.

    You are so wrong! You have no idea what you are talking about! In New Jersey, we have these magical things called Abbot Districts. They are poor inner city districts that the State of New Jersey fully funds to the gills. They are building new schools and spending MORE per pupil then any district around. Camden spends more per pupil then almost every district in South Jersey and have for over 10 YEARS!!!! Guess what, last years drop out rate was still approaching 50%!!!!!!!!

    You want to improve these inner city youths chances, you have to chang their lives. MONEY doesn't solve every problem. A strong family is the first thing these kids need. They need TWO parents, they need to stop having 3 or 4 kids by the time they are 18! End the welfare state, reward strong families in these communities and see how things improve!

    Hell these districts are so overspent on that Clayton, NJ a nice suburban community is trying to get onto the Abbot District list so they can get new buildings and full funding!

    As it is now, only the white upper middle to upper class has the chance at making into a good school, getting a good job, etc...


    Wrong again. Accross the street from me live my neighbor Tony. He is a lot like me. He is middle class and a hard worker. He also happens to be black. His daughter was the Valedictoran of her school two years ago. She scored in the high 1300s on the SAT. She now attends Princeton. By the way, Tony is a professor at Rowan University! Good thing no one ever told him that he and his family could not prosper since they were black!

    Fund inner city schools as much as you fund the suburban schools, fund rural schools as much as you fund suburban schools, and you will take away the need for AA.


    In NJ, the Abbott Districts get more and have gotten more for over 10 years and are all still failing. MONEY DOES NOT SOLVE EVERYTHING!! Train teachers better for one. Strengthen the family for another. That is the recipe for success!

    The only thing I don't like about AA is its reliance on color (which normally goes hand in hand with location and school funding), but you have others that slip threw the hole. I am more for a benefit to those who come from the lesser funded areas.


    AA should be a remedy of last resort, not an entitlement or right!

    Bob and Joe are equally smart kids, with equal amount of drive. Bob goes to a suburban prominently white school, Joe goes to an inner city or rural school. Bob will more then likely do better on the SAT, get into a good college, get a good job, make more money, etc... for his school can afford practice classes, his classes are better, etc... Joe who has to accept the minimal education he receives will do worst, and get into a sub standard college, get a sub standard job, and make less money. And the cycle goes on and on. There is no upward mobility that this country is said to represent. The rich get richer the poor get poorer.


    WRONG AGAIN!! There are so many success stories available to prove you wrong that I will not even entertain this example!

    BTW, Shouldn't you be in Russia by now you hippie-commie liberal!

    Comment

    • FalconGuy016
      Divine Right, Pevs @ AG
      • Aug 2002
      • 6127

      #32
      Vendetta, are you serious? You think its okay that you can score better than other people on a test not because you know more, or at better at something, but because of what race you are? Honestly its degrading to the races who have AA
      Hey
      AIM: FalconGuy016
      BANG!!!

      Comment

      • Kai

        #33
        Originally posted by CasingBill


        HOLY CRAP!!! We agree
        Hah.

        A one time only deal!

        Comment

        • Collegeboy

          #34
          How long has this change happened in new jersey. You can not change the generation now, you change their kids. Funding is the key issue. Give the poor inner city students and the poor rural students the same funding as you the suburban schools, and you will have the beginning to solving the problem. Things happen from there. Nothing is the end all solution, but things get the ball moving.

          I am a victim of AA and location discrimination, yet I am not bitter about it. I scored a 1500 on the SAT, and a 34 on the ACT, and had a 4.0 in school. I applied to a total of 20 schools. Got accepted to half of them, most of which was Ivy League or upper level schools. But I could not afford to go on my parents 40,000 a year pay check. I was told I could have a scholarship if I was a minority by both MIT and Columbia. My parents made too much for a pell grant, and made too little to fund my education. So I had to settle to where my college is free, and I get paid to go (alot). Alabama is not Columbia or MIT, but I am also not 250,000 in debt, but pretty good in the black.

          All in all, AA if a great program for now, it needs to evolve to encompass more then just color, but for now it has had its effects. As Geiphart said in his debate. When he graduated from UM Law School he had one black guy in his graduation class, since AA they now average 70 a year.

          I leave Friday.

          Comment

          • 1stdeadeye
            Still around????
            • Jun 2002
            • 8501

            #35
            Originally posted by Collegeboy
            How long has this change happened in new jersey. You can not change the generation now, you change their kids. Funding is the key issue. Give the poor inner city students and the poor rural students the same funding as you the suburban schools, and you will have the beginning to solving the problem. Things happen from there. Nothing is the end all solution, but things get the ball moving.

            It has been going on for a long time! Nothing has changed. They have added headstart Pre-school, full day Kindergarden. Drop out rate has BEEN CLIMBING!!

            You need to build strong families first. Money will do nothing without parents.guardians supporting the children!

            I am a victim of AA and location discrimination, yet I am not bitter about it. I scored a 1500 on the SAT, and a 34 on the ACT, and had a 4.0 in school. I applied to a total of 20 schools. Got accepted to half of them, most of which was Ivy League or upper level schools. But I could not afford to go on my parents 40,000 a year pay check. I was told I could have a scholarship if I was a minority by both MIT and Columbia. My parents made too much for a pell grant, and made too little to fund my education. So I had to settle to where my college is free, and I get paid to go (alot). Alabama is not Columbia or MIT, but I am also not 250,000 in debt, but pretty good in the black.

            All in all, AA if a great program for now, it needs to evolve to encompass more then just color, but for now it has had its effects. As Geiphart said in his debate. When he graduated from UM Law School he had one black guy in his graduation class, since AA they now average 70 a year.


            It should be a remedy of last resort, not a set in stone program!

            I leave Friday.


            See ya Tovarich!

            Comment

            • Kevmaster
              Owners Group Div: Director
              • Oct 2001
              • 5475

              #36
              in the 60's the US courts slammed down that race could be held against you...why is it now that race CAN count to your benefit (if you're black) and HURT you if you're white? If someone wants to implement a CLASS based affirmative action idea, id be happy to listen to the arguement...and you would prolly win my approval. however, as long as it is based SOLELY on race, then i am 100% against it

              Comment

              • Collegeboy

                #37
                Something must be going wrong then. (I mean has this program been going on for 15 years or more). A strong family is an important feature. But you have to get to that, the present generation of parents are lost (hard to say but true IMO), you can not change them. You have to change the kids. That is why the increased funding is necessary.

                I would have to see this program you are talking about first hand to pass any kind of opinion. Without seeing things first hand, i would like to see the distubution of funds. For a new building is fine and dandy, but without good teachers and good teaching materials, it is useless.

                I actually heard a plan the dems are thinking of proposing in which I like alot. They said that any graduating college student that is qualified to teach in public schools who agrees to teach for 5 years, will have their college loans paid off. But to do this, the national government needs to take over the funding of schools IMO. But then you will take away the majority of the rights of the states. It is a difficult thing to decide on. Maybe this is something in which the national government will alocate funds to states to do so.

                Comment

                • 1stdeadeye
                  Still around????
                  • Jun 2002
                  • 8501

                  #38
                  The Abbott Districts have been fully funded since 1997. They are paid for by the state. NJ already is tops in the nation in spending per pupil. The ADs are at the top of that list. The school construction is not included in the per pupil funding.

                  MONEY does not solve every problem. As for the current generation being lost, I can not accept that. Teachers can only see the kids for at most 8 hours a day. Their needs to be family support to help make the other 16 hours worthwhile. I don't care if you put Harvard in the middle of Camden, until you get family buy-in, nothing will change.

                  Then entire Abbott decision proves that!

                  Comment

                  • Kevmaster
                    Owners Group Div: Director
                    • Oct 2001
                    • 5475

                    #39
                    the government LOVES to throw money at a problem and hope it will go away....the "war on drugs" has cost $30 BILLION and has had hardly noticable results. the government needs to come up with a realistic plan that will WORK and spend money there...not just toss money at it and hope people wont notice

                    Comment

                    • Collegeboy

                      #40
                      Who said money will solve all the problems? I said it is the begining.

                      6 years is hardly enough time to solve anything not to mention completly chaning a peoples minds.

                      You can institute after school parent training classes and student parent activities. But in the end, more times then no,t the parents will result to how they were brought up. Working for a week in a social services office taught me that.

                      Comment

                      • 1stdeadeye
                        Still around????
                        • Jun 2002
                        • 8501

                        #41
                        Originally posted by Collegeboy
                        Who said money will solve all the problems? I said it is the begining.

                        6 years is hardly enough time to solve anything not to mention completly chaning a peoples minds.

                        You can institute after school parent training classes and student parent activities. But in the end, more times then no,t the parents will result to how they were brought up. Working for a week in a social services office taught me that.
                        A whole week?!?! Why didn't you say so? You are obviously a qualified expert now!

                        The Abbotts have been funding per pupil since King James (Florio) the 1st's term in office (1989). The full funding was in regards to school construction as well. When almost 10 years went by without improvement, the Education Law Center figured that it must be the delaidated schools that were holding the kids back and sued again. They won Abbott II in 1997.

                        As for money and spending, check out Atlantic City. 4 years ago they built one of the largest and most technically advanced schools in the state. Fully funded by the casinos. The casinos have fully funded the AC school district for 30 years. Guess what, still stinks! Very high per pupil spending. That new school has been vandalized so many times it looks like it is 20 years old and not 4. It is not the amount of money, but the calibre of the child and their family. Until they WANT to change, they never will. I can cite many more examples.

                        You can't solve every problem by throwing money at it!

                        Comment

                        • Collegeboy

                          #42
                          Looks like they spent too much money on the setting of the education experience and not enough on the input and the teachers.

                          I can show you Georgia where it has begun to work greatly.

                          No one ever said you can solve every problem through money.

                          Comment

                          • Jack_Dubious
                            ubi dubium ibi libertas
                            • Apr 2002
                            • 922

                            #43
                            my thought on AA

                            Stick it to the Man!

                            Thats payback for 400 years of oppression!

                            j/k


                            JDub

                            "Automags.org. You'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy."

                            Comment

                            • aaron_mag
                              Registered User
                              • Jul 2002
                              • 1375

                              #44
                              Not going to get into this debate but I fall closer to CB's thinking on this one. 1de don't even say that all schools are funded equally. Of course we all might not know about the utopia of New Jersey which has always been a shining light of equality and forward thinking (since we don't live there) but you don't have to search very hard to find differences in funding for schools in the nation. Wait didn't I say I wasn't going to debate it? God I can't stop my own nature....
                              ULE Body Level 10 Automag intelliframe + retrovalve

                              Comment

                              • FactsOfLife
                                Conservative Jihadi
                                • May 2002
                                • 2504

                                #45
                                Originally posted by Collegeboy
                                Want to get rid of AA, fund schools evenly. Take away the states control of the schools and make it a federal governments control. That way all students have an equal chance at receiving an equal education and an equal chance at making in the world.

                                Spoken like a true liberal.

                                I guess individual rights don't mean much in your world huh.

                                BTW, aren't you supposed to be leaving for the promised commieland?

                                'I guess John Kerry went into the primaries without a plan to win the election.' - Ann Coulter
                                All you ever needed to know about how the left thinks in one video.
                                The Thinking Conservatives Website
                                Hey Michael Mooron, THIS is what a documentary looks like.

                                Comment

                                Working...