The 911 attacks a 28-900 Page classified documents.

[Hasty8]

First off, the bunker and your basement are both fine for surviving a nuclear attack. ICBM's detonate at 3000 - 6000' above sea level and have little to no ground penetrating ability.

A tactical nuke detonate at sea level has a bit more ground penetrating power but mostly in the way of seismic activity.

As for the Saudi confusion. First off, Usama Bin Laden is a child of the Saudi Royal family I believe. Not sure on the family but definatly Saudi.

We attacked Afghanistan because that is where UBL was currently staging his organization from. Some may recall that UBL also was based in Somalia in 1993, right around the time of the "Black Hawk Down" incident.

Next, we went into Iraq because Saddam is just one crazy mofo and needed good...female dog slapping.

The one thing that everyone needs to understand is the this "War On Terror" is unlike any single war ever fought in the history of man. Not the history of America but the history of MAN.

Unlike the Revolutionary, World or Vietnam Wars this current wars primary foe is an ideology and it is almost impossible to destroy an ideology.

[Hasty8]

Originally posted by Albinonewt
Frankly, impossible. China lacks the naval and air capablity to invade Taiwan, which is only a stones throw away. Fear not a land invasion from China. Not only will it NOT happen, but frankly it cannot happen.

Remember, the bulk of the rest of the world has all their "enemies" touching their borders, which means they've simply never need to maintain the transportation capablities that we have. Since we never fight our wars in Mexico and Canada we've needed (for the past 100 years or so) to be able to fight thousands of miles away across an ocean. Nobody else has to do that, and nobody else really could (arguebaly the British, but they lack the manpower to invade us, and a reason to do it)

You are both right and wrong at the same time. Remember, China's standing army is greter than the entire population of America from the oldest to the youngest.

The DOD recently (within the past 8 years I believe did a wargame on just this topic) The way it would work, if memory serves, is there would be a tremendous influx of "asian" imigrants who would form cluster cells of significant size in various key locations of America. When the time came they would rise up and cause massive internal problems which require a great amount of US Army and National Guard call outs to quell the distrubances. This internal rising would be followed by attacks along our northern and southern borders.

While the exercise did prove that it is quite an unfeasible tactical manuver it is theoretically possible.

[Hasty8]

Originally posted by Albinonewt


Complte Suicide.

If we allow it to evetually turn into a full scale war one of two things would happen.

Israel, with it's superior technology would crush its Arab enemies

The Arabs would put Israel in a posistion where it thought it was threatened enough to deploy nuclear weapons.

Either way, and ugly picure.

Gotta disagree with you here. First off, while Israel has become a world leader in military weapons their additions stay solely in the firearms and software realm.

Secondly, Israel has come close to being wiped off the map many times. While their fighting spirit and sheer raw ballsyness cannot be ignored, should the arab world ever actually work together then Israel would be instantly wiped off the map without serious US support.

Most of the IDF's armor and air weaponry comes straight from the US. If you want a really excellent reading, get a good historical copy of the Six day war. At the time the ISraeli Air Force, which had maybe 200 airplanes if that managed to destroy the entire Egyptian airforce and the vast majority of their bases within a 24 hour period. The planes and their pilote were flying 8 sorties a day I believe, a feat which no other Air Force of the world (not even Americas) could reproduce.

They actually hold the (unofficial) record for the fastest combat refueling and resupply of weapons. Time was just a few seconds over three minutes.

[Star_Base_CGI]

John AShcroft and the DOD warn of more attacks via Plane or Ferry. (Ferrys can be used to blow up nuclear power plants.) The Nation will be on Yellow alert. These could be the afore mentioned attack plans to disrup the country before Nuclear weapons or troops are sent IMHO. SOmeone said that China could simply use 747s to Invade. Once the US found out though they could shoot those 747s down.

[Albinonewt]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Star_Base_CGI
These could be the afore mentioned attack plans to disrup the country before Nuclear weapons or troops are sent IMHO.

Huh? An attack from where? And by who? ASl Queda is launch a 5 million man invasion of the us using it's high tech amphibious landing craft its is cloaking field equipped navy that is currently stationed off our coast?

SOmeone said that China could simply use 747s to Invade. Once the US found out though they could shoot those 747s down.

Yeah, someone did say that, but that doesn't make it even remotly accurate.

Not even a little.

Not the tiniest bit.

Plus, I'm sure China is just itching to get into a nuclear war by launching a first strike with commerical aircraft. Not exactly how I would go about it.

Not to mention China's economy is pertty dependent on our trade, which we might stop if we were attacked.

Maybe we would stop buying their textile.

Possibly...

[Albinonewt]

Although, just think of the guys at the docks unloading Chinese cargo ships.

"What's this ship carrying?"
"I don't know, hope it's not anymore of those toys, they weigh a ton"
"Thank God, just another troop ship, those guys pretty much unload themselves"
"Yeah, we better get our Union Rep out here though, I better be getting paid for this"
(chinese soldier mutters something to the dock workers)
"Yeah buddy, the invasion force is about 40 miles west of here. They wanted me to tell you to reinforce the north flank."

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by Albinonewt


Because they're the only nation with a large enough strategic reserve. It's not that they're the friendliest or anything, it's simply that to get have the reserve we need to be confortable we either need Saudi Arabie as an ally, or two or three other allies. And it's easier to have just one.


Why do we need the reserves of Saudi Arabia? (and one of the other countries reserves is just as good as Saudis without the political and people problems that Saudi brings to the table)


The government is pro-America (largely, but not completely) because we gave them their country back. It's not that we went outo f our way to find the 8 guys in Afghanistan that like us, it's just that popular opinion is (for the time being) largely pro-American because we deposed the people oppressing them. AS for why Afghanistan, because that's where the people that attacked us were. It was nothing against the people of the country, but the bad guys that lived there and the regime that harbored them.

But why did we attacked, the talliban asked for proof that Osama was involved, the US refused, and attacked. To me they wanted to remove the government and used the "refusal" as a tool to get a pipeline. Or at least that is what it seems as know.


Because Saddam had to go. He oppressed his people. He threatened stability. He invaded his neighbors. He may have had, or been in the process of aquiring, contacts with terrorists (remember all the terrorists we've found in Iraq) to deliver strikes against the west. He had to go. And Iran IS trying to develop nuclear weapons. They clearly are and have been for a very long time. There are two reasons. First, they're bad people and they want a bomb for power and export. Two, they fear Israel. They know that they can't ever support an attack against a nuclear armed Israel without some juice of their own. As for a nuclear plant in Iraq, I hadn't heard that one. I'm intersted though so I'll look into it.

Why did Saddam have to go? What oppression did he do? How did he threaten stability? So do you believe that the Union was wrong in the Civil War, or do you believe that Russia is wrong in the Chechneyan conflict now? What contacts did he have, and what terrorist did we capture? How is Iran bad people? Why do they fear Israel?



Wait a sec, there's a big difference between asking questions (what you just did) and screaming that the President is killing babies for oil and wishing for a thousand Mogadishus and so forth. Those people are unamerican, the people that wish for the defeat of their home. People that are curious why the Taliban needed deafeating are simply curious, nothing wrong with that. [/B]

Alot of people can not make the distinction and quickly turn to calling names. For proof, just read some of the past dicussions here

[cphilip]

Muslim extremism is a terrible perversion of a noble religeon. Used to blame others for their own plight. And to redirect the hate and consolidate power. It happens to all of those country's. All of the country's metioned have them within their midst. And some times are powerless to do much about them. These groups are ruthless and armed to the teeth. Its not a noble cause. Its and evil perversion of thier faith.

Osama was the Son of a wealthy construction contractor in Saudi Arabia. We did prove he did it. In fact he went on tape, that he made himself, and gloated about doing it.

EVERY Muslim country has extremests in it. Even Sadam had them. And even though he repressed Muslim practices in his country he used it when it was beneficial to him. Lately more than ever. I suppose all the mass graves mean nothing. And opulent splendor surrounded by repression. And legalized rape and tourture. Taped and watched for pleasure. Even France and for that matter America harbors Muslim extremests that feel their mission is to kill you.

Well as usual this one went into the quagmire of politics.