Assualt weapon ban voted down..

[cphilip]

I was under the impression that you would rather have a high powered pistol to protect yourself in your home. A long rifle would be rather unwieldy in a CQB situation.

Not really. Its long been held that the Best home defense weapon is a short barreled Shotgun. With about #2 shot (if 12 ga but OObuck works fine as well and needed in 20 ga.). effective range is about the distance of a large room. And the pattern of a shotgun in Modified choke or open choke makes accuracy a bit less critical. Patterns out to a half a foot at say 10 feet is what you are looking for. Wider as it travels furhter. Over a foot at 30 feet. Total range less than 100 yards but you don't need any more in the house. And the density and speed of the pellets is less apt to penetrate walls and cause injury to someone in another room. So this makes, for instance, and Improved choke 12 gauge pump shotgun of legal length (16 inches or so I think) with a pistol stock and loaded with #2 shot shells about the best weapon going for home defense. You can normaly get 7-9 or so rounds in it with the right lower tube. Its fairly light and just point to shoot. No real fine aiming needed. And won't kill your kids in the next room while you blow the intruder away. Plus you can use it as a club.

[Stix]

I c...

Hrmm... the not blowing your kids away thingie sounds good =) I'm sold.

[cphilip]

Hrmm... the not blowing your kids away thingie sounds good =) I'm sold.

Its kind of a good idea...

[FactsOfLife]

You need to watch shot size in that shotgun if you live in a subdivision.

00 buck can and will easily penetrate walls and can go through your neighbors house.

You're better off with #5-6 shot. Still lethal up close, less likely to have penetration problems.

[cphilip]

You need to watch shot size in that shotgun if you live in a subdivision.

00 buck can and will easily penetrate walls and can go through your neighbors house.

You're better off with #5-6 shot. Still lethal up close, less likely to have penetration problems.

Most people will disagree with that. More often they feel #5 or #6 shot will not penetrate skin enough to be effective. Its penetration is about 6 inches which is felt that its not lethal enough. Remember you are not shooting them to piss them off. Of cause a nasty welt. You want to take them out. So you have to balance the concern of penetration with the purpose of what your doing. And also remember that this is not truely a "Scatter gun". It all will be within a pattern of where you aim thats no larger than 18 inches or less by the time it crosses even a fairly large room and strikes a wall. Larger shot like a BB is closer to 12 inches of skin penetration. So thats closer to lethal penetration range you need. And most often even if OO or BB goes through a wall its velocity is so impeded by that time that it is not going to cause a serious wound. It may injure. But not likely kill. More often in that shot size debate (oh yea it goes on all the time) the compromise choice is at least #2 if you can find it. Minimum. Not easy to find #2 though. But BB size if you cannot. A tad easier to find this shot and a good second choice. They close to the same size and pellet count. 00 is often easier to find and while getting risky for wall penetration in most cases does not penetrate with enough velocity left to be fatal. I personaly prefer #2 shot. And will take a BB if I can find it.

However a Rifle or Handgun single bullet will penetrate and still be at a lethal velocity. Even a shotgun with a slug will. So those are not good choices.

[Bluestrike_2]

Go back to American History 101

just to clarify a statement someone made earlier.

The Constitution states that we shall not be forced to quarter soldiers.

This was because of the COERCIVE ACTS passed by Parliament in the early 1770's due to the Boston Tea Party.

The coercive acts had multiple acts within it.

One was "that Colonists should have to quarter British soldiers."

Needless to say, back then, fathers "lock up your daughters." The colonists hated it. That is why it was included in the Constitution. Not some of the "reasons" people listed.

so you're saying the amendment wasn't created in an effort to stop possible foreign invasion by the british?

then explain why the quartering of troops amendment is in there...which is obviously DIRECTLY linked to foreign invasion.

IT was NOT linked to foreign invasion. Go back to American History 101.

[WingMan13]

Ah, and lets not forget the awsome selection of shotgun ammo found in Firequest.com. It would make Batman proud!

I find it amazing to find this many people against assault weapons when we play a sport that is always trying to find higher rates of fire power...

[cphilip]

I was reading with some interest the issues of Shotguns in war. Seems the Allieds first decided to use shotguns in trench warfare way back as superior to rifles for the effectiveness of close quarters combat. Similar to home defense in a way. And in fact the Germans protested the use of them as "barbaric". Ironic isn't it?

Police use them all the time. The alltime favortie being the Remington 870 Pump in 12 guage and almost always they load with OO buckshot. Lots of cheap upgrades for this gun to turn the average 870 into a riot/urban fighting arm are out there. Magazine extentions, pistol stocks, forearm grips and lots of attachements like White lights and lazer lights and all that sort of cool stuff. Very effective weapon in urban warfare.

[RoadDawg]

Honestly IMO I don't think we need "assault weapons". Yes they are fun to shoot but just like fast cars aren't really necessary for the every day home. Although a ban isn't gonna keep criminals from getting these types of weapons, if they choose to get one. Police agencies use these for a reason. They can't afford to be out gunned. Good people do go bad though. So just because someone has a clean record doesn't mean they won't go shoot up a place or whatever. If this were to happen they could have a VERY lethal and deadly weapon. Of course they can also have anything they choose. But if a clean record is present and they already own a AR then they have that as a possible weapon to cause harm. A ban would keep average joe schmoe from buying it but the criminals will have their ways of getting around that. So a ban isn't really gonna solve much. Especially since so little crime is commited with them (according to the link in the first page), although that source seems to have their own agenda just like anyone against/for something. In the end I don't think a ban is the way to go and I think A.W's are overkill.

By the way comparing these to paintball is like comparing Nascar to Indy racing. They have similarities but are two totally different things and styles.

[Buff]

uhm, saying bush was a coward in the Air guard as a pilot is stupid. You know how many people get killed in training accidents etc as pilots, ecspecially in single engine fighters? people die all the time in fighters.......

[Dragonfd3s]

Take a AR15, it looks bad *** and uses a .223 *5.56mm round that in the hunting world is considered a small game round. It has decent penetration for its caliber, but will not even penetrate a piece of 1in bullet proof glass.
Now go buy your self a 7mm Magnum hunting rifle and watch it tear a hole threw that same glass and kill the person standing behind it. Just because it looks like a military assault weapon doesn't mean anything. It's the person behind the weapon who does what he does. Ignorant people only judge things by the way they look and have no knowledge of what they are judging. These people are usually democrats.

[RoadDawg]

Take a AR15, it looks bad *** and uses a .223 *5.56mm round that in the hunting world is considered a small game round. It has decent penetration for its caliber, but will not even penetrate a piece of 1in bullet proof glass.
Now go buy your self a 7mm Magnum hunting rifle and watch it tear a hole threw that same glass and kill the person standing behind it. Just because it looks like a military assault weapon doesn't mean anything. It's the person behind the weapon who does what he does. Ignorant people only judge things by the way they look and have no knowledge of what they are judging. These people are usually democrats.

That last sentence your judging w/o much knowledge. I know several Democrats that love their guns. I know I'm not the only one in this country either. Yes there are some democrats that are for this ban, I bet there are some republicans (in office or not) that might be for it. In fact I'm quite often considered a liberal (minority on this board) but what people fail to realize is that not all liberal's are the same. No matter what some of you might think.

[Rooster]

"Yes there are some democrats that are for this ban, "

Far too many of them are in favor of it.

[Target Practice]

He does have a good point though. I mean, just look at an M1 Garand (the favorite in my collection). Here is a rifle with 8 shots of semi-auto .30-06. If your good at it, you can reload a Garand very quickly. This, to me, is scary as all hell. Well, it would be if I was on the recieving end of it. These aren't illegal, and I would rather take my chances with a .223 than with a .30-06. Uh oh. Time to go to Art, gotta run!

[RoadDawg]

He does have a good point though. I mean, just look at an M1 Garand (the favorite in my collection). Here is a rifle with 8 shots of semi-auto .30-06. If your good at it, you can reload a Garand very quickly. This, to me, is scary as all hell. Well, it would be if I was on the recieving end of it. These aren't illegal, and I would rather take my chances with a .223 than with a .30-06. Uh oh. Time to go to Art, gotta run!

I love M1's. My Uncle has one and the thing is smooth. My only problem with his is that it's not always working. I think it has something to do with the slide but I'm not positive as I'm not a gun tech. By the way my bro (now in afghanistan) owns a Chinese SKS. That thing is cool but overkill IMO.