No Al Qaeda Cooperation with Iraq

[-Carnifex-]

Whaddya want? A copy of the check from the local bank?!

If you want articles and documents try www.google.com

No, if he's going to make claims he should be able to back them. Not to mention, I'm sure he'd be much obliged to help a fellow American make the correct argument when it comes up.

[taylor492]

No matter how hard any of us argue the point, noone will be able to produce actual physical evidence. But the same could be said about your claims.

Now if this were court, the burden of proof would be on the prosecution,( Hasty, Rooster, me etc.) Unfortunately, theres just no way for anyone other than the govt. to be able to produce any evidence.

I am confident in the governments reasons for the war. I don't think they would spend billions of dollars and hundreds of american soldiers lives unless they had good reason to.

[cphilip]

Once again, where's the proof?

The man may be operating in Iraq, that doesn't mean he's supported by Saddam.

I'm not seeing where it said they met in that article. Is it possible you can show me where you saw this?

Also, where's the proof for this? I know he supports Palestinians, but I haven't heard that he vowed to support an attack on America. Can you point me to an article?

Actually the Commission admits all that happened. Thier only point is that it has nothing to do with 911

But niether they nor the current administration is claiming they cooperated on 911 attacks. Never have.

But no one is claiming they did not meet multiple times over other terrorist sponsorships nor is anyone denying that Saddam sponsored terrrorism... except perhaps you? In fact the commission confirmed the meetings. And where do you think they got that information? Apparently good enough information they were shown to convince them that it did occur....

[-Carnifex-]

I'm aware of what the commission said Phil (in this article), and I agree with you.

I'm not claiming they didn't meet, but that article mentions nothing about Germany (unless I missed it).

I definitely believe they met and that Saddam supports terrorism, but Rooster posts points that I haven't seen any verification of and I would appreciate it if he could show me some so that I am able to make the same points when I am brought into an argument like this.

[cphilip]

I'm aware of what the commission said Phil, and I agree with you.

I'm not claiming they didn't meet, but that article mentions nothing about Germany (unless I missed it).

I definitely believe they met and that Saddam supports terrorism, but Rooster posts points that I haven't seen any verification of and I would appreciate it if he could show me some so that I am able to make the same points when I am brought into an argument like this.

Oh I gottcha now...

I do not know where the Germany thing came in but I remember some scuttlebut about it a good while back. Just do not recall the details. I will see if I can find something on it...

[Hasty8]

1.) First, I didn't ask about Terrorists in general. Learn to read.

2.) Article / Documents, arguing with heresay doesn't do me any good.

I learned how to read in grade school. My post was to show that Saddam was in league with terrorists but if it's specifics you want"

In late February 2004, Christopher Carney made an astonishing discovery. Carney, a political science professor from Pennsylvania on leave to work at the Pentagon, was poring over a list of officers in Saddam Hussein's much-feared security force, the Fedayeen Saddam. One name stood out: Lieutenant Colonel Ahmed Hikmat Shakir. The name was not spelled exactly as Carney had seen it before, but such discrepancies are common. Having studied the relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda for 18 months, he immediately recognized the potential significance of his find. According to a report
last week in the Wall Street Journal, Shakir appears on three different lists of Fedayeen officers.

An Iraqi of that name, Carney knew, had been present at an al Qaeda summit in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, on January 5-8, 2000. U.S. intelligence officials believe this was a chief planning meeting for the September 11 attacks. Shakir had been nominally employed as a "greeter" by Malaysian Airlines, a job he told associates he had gotten through a contact at the Iraqi embassy. More curious, Shakir's Iraqi embassy contact controlled his schedule, telling him when to show up for work and when to take a day off.

A greeter typically meets VIPs upon arrival and accompanies them through the sometimes onerous procedures of foreign travel. Shakir was instructed to work on January 5, 2000, and on that day, he escorted one Khalid al Mihdhar from his plane to a waiting car. Rather than bid his guest farewell at that point, as a greeter typically would have, Shakir climbed into the car with al Mihdhar and accompanied him to the Kuala Lumpur condominium of Yazid Sufaat, the American-born al Qaeda terrorist who hosted the planning meeting.

The meeting lasted for three days. Khalid al Mihdhar departed Kuala Lumpur for Bangkok and eventually Los Angeles. Twenty months later, he was aboard American Airlines Flight 77 when it plunged into the Pentagon at 9:38 A.M. on September 11. So were Nawaf al Hazmi and his younger brother, Salem, both of whom were also present at the Kuala Lumpur meeting.

How's that for specifics? Until the Senators and Congress men who are obvisouly better at intelligence gathering than our military and governmental employees who are hired to do just that can discount this curious tidbit I will continue to believe that Saddam and AQ were daisy-chain partners.

Link

As the article goes on to explain, this may not clearly demonstrate that Saddam was personally involved but it does show that there was a definate connection between Iraq and AQ.

[cphilip]

while looking I found some interesting reads...


Germany involvement in Lethal Gas production:

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/cw/az120103.html

Money laundering assistance given to Saddam including Marc Rich (tax evader pardoned by Clinton)

http://www.insightmag.com/news/2004/05/28/World/Following.Saddam.Husseins.Secret.MoneyLaundering.Trail-684337.shtml

I think the real scandal that is going to evolve is the money trail and the countries that helped Saddam during sanctions.

[-Carnifex-]

Good find. I'm wondering why the 9/11 commission didn't think this was proof enough? If an Iraqi official went to a meeting for planning the WTC bombing.

[Hasty8]

This is incorrect while the Honda FCX may not use fossil fuel. The productoin of hydrogen DOES!! Hydrogen cars will just shift who uses the fossil fuel to the power plant operators! I get so mad when they take a car and say "look you can drink what comes out of the tailpipe" and in dont show the HUGE coal burning power plant belching out smoke needed to make the electricity to seperate the hydrogen from the oxygen in water then the power to compress it ect. My next pet peeve is Bio Diesel and Ethnol!!!

Dude, what are you talking about? This car requires no electrical input. While curerntly hydrogen is produced as a by product of petroleum refinement it can be done a number of other ways.



Producing Hydrogen

Hydrogen refills were arranged at Patrick's alma mater, our nearby University of California Irvine. We drove a total of 310 miles during our week with the FCX. In our two refuelings, we put in 2.97 and 3.54 kg of hydrogen, these stints giving gasoline-equivalents of 41.8 and 29.9 mpg, respectively.

Road & Track tests the FCX

While I have no clue how to convert cubic feet into kilograms I'm willing to bet that the Humbolt's device should produce enough hydrogen on a daily basis.

While I am sure that there are probably fairly large initial costs to either buying or building one of the Humbolt devices the benefits that will be reaped go far beyond simple money issues.

It does a brain good!

[Hasty8]

Good find. I'm wondering why the 9/11 commission didn't think this was proof enough? If an Iraqi official went to a meeting for planning the WTC bombing.

I'm not sure whose post you are referring to. If you are referring to mine about Ahmed Hikmat Shakir here is my answer.

There are quite a few reasons, the most obvious being that the commission was never fully detailed on this.

The problem I have with non-intell people questioning the intell community is this.

The intell world is composed of ghosts, shadows and smoke. Nothing is overtly substantial in this area. Yes, there were communication failures at multiple levels that lead up to the attacks of September 11, 2001 but this was unavoidable.

Also, since the end of the Cold War the CIA received less and less fudning and this greatly effected the assets they had in the field. Back in the 80's they had handfulls of money to toss at people in order to flip them.

Also, after America's positional change on ME issue in the late 80's early 90's where we flipped on a lot of our assets in the region and most of them died, it's no surprise they don't want to get into bed with us. Tis of course in no way means that I sympathetic to the freask who attacked us. Let me make that abundantly clear.

My point is that the members of the commission want concrete answers when there are just none to give.

If you were referring to another post sorry for wasting your time.

[Bluestrike_2]

Hehe...

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/18/saddam.terror/index.html

(CNN) -- Russian President Vladimir Putin said his country warned the United States several times that Saddam Hussein's regime was planning terror attacks on the United States and its overseas interests.

==============================

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/06/18/russia.warning/index.html

MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- Russian intelligence services warned Washington several times that Saddam Hussein's regime planned terrorist attacks against the United States, President Vladimir Putin has said.

The warnings were provided after September 11, 2001 and before the start of the Iraqi war, Putin said Friday.

There you go, just contributing to the discussion.

CNN posted these at about noon, and then at 1:20 TODAY.

[Southpaw]

ONION

Near the Bottom of the page

[Hasty8]

I assume that this is a joke?

he Onion is a comedy site and hydrogen is the most abundant material in all of existance.

[Kellen_p8nt]

Yea Hasty that is satire.

However Hydrogen is the most abundant element, both in combined forms a on its own.

However, On earth that majority is much less.So Hydrogen is not nearly as abundant as other elements(at east in a singular form).

However. We DO NOT need fossil fuels to seperate hydrogen from oxygen. There are other options