the American view of world history vs everyone else's

[RedBeard]

Just a quick comment.
I have a friend from Germany. Last time he came to visit, we had a conversation along these lines. He said that in the schools he went to, they hardly even mention Hitler. He said it's like they don't want to really admit he was a German.

[Waffleman]

YEah, germany is really really ashamed of anything related to Hitler. We have more Nazis in the US than germany.
But I just got this box set called victory at sea that talks all about the war at sea. We officially didnt join the "war" untill 1941 but we had been giving the British and French weapons, supplies and had been helping cover supply ships against the german U-boats.

90% of countries will teach whatever story will make them look more the hero. Germany I feel is the most honest about the war since they are the ones who started it and have no reason to bend the truth since...well, they lost

[manike]

Just a quick comment.
I have a friend from Germany. Last time he came to visit, we had a conversation along these lines. He said that in the schools he went to, they hardly even mention Hitler. He said it's like they don't want to really admit he was a German.

He wasn't. He was Austrian.

[xXHavokXx]

Just a quick comment.
I have a friend from Germany. Last time he came to visit, we had a conversation along these lines. He said that in the schools he went to, they hardly even mention Hitler. He said it's like they don't want to really admit he was a German.

Wasn't he actually austrian.

[mcveighr]

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm?source=history/secondwar/Canada2

[TylerDurden]

America's involvement in WWII until Pearl Harbour was a financial one. Many times they were asked by Churchill to enter the war but he was refused. After Pearl Harbour this changed as America could hardly fight the Japanese (which the British were already doing) and not come in on the same side.

America did not enter the war militarily because Roosevelt knew their was not enough public support for it. However, America had been sending England not only money but also ammunition and armaments for a great while (which America was never fully compensated for). Roosevelt sent these supplies putting America directly in the line of fire. He sent those supplies against trade policy as well I might add. Roosevelt wanted to join the fight, and the pearl harbour attack allowed him to. Also, I will add that without American involvement Britain may very well have been invaded. The Luftwaffa were already making bold, devastating daylight bombruns on London, and the RAF was heavily crippled. Their only advantage was having radar, but with damaged or destroyed planes and no pilots whats good does radar do. Not to mention the Germans were developing more powerful longrange rockets and rail guns. The Nazis' other strength was on the seas. Their submarines devastated both Britains' and Americas' navy. The Americans, however, were able to capture and decode the enigma machine. Also, America ended the batte of the Pacific killing many, but saving more. I'm not saying Americans aren't arrogant, I'm just saying they have good reason to be.

When America arrived in France to fight many of their soldiers were lost due to the American Generals attempting attack stratagies that had several years before been proved to be too costly but the American Generals refused to listen and huge losses were the result. Whilst arrogance could be used as a defence America had not a fought a war of any concequence for many years so tactics etc were totally out of date and unfortunately the result was a lot of needless deaths.

Even Great leaders make errors. Winston Churchill and the charge of the light brigade comes to mind. What tactics are you referring to? Who had used them years before? Tactics that do not work in one place and time can work beautifully in another (although their are several exceptions). Because of the rapid change in the tools, tactics, and terrain of warfare, it is hard to say that they were fools for trying those tactics. In the past century alone the battles have gone from the trenchs of Germany, to the skys over Europe, to the Oceans, to the Jungles of Vietnam, to the Deserts of Iraq, etc. etc. The tactics have gone from suicidal charges into machine gun nests, to parachuting behind enemy lines to surround the enemy, to Blitzkreirg, to guerilla warfare with small units of special forces, etc.. To say that a tactic that failed in Vietnam would not work in Iraq would be a bit of a presumptuous statement. I do not know which tactics you are referring in this statement.

[Thordic]

The British captured the Enigma. Don't get all your history from bad movies.

[MarkM]

I won't quote your post since it is quicker and easier to just answer the inaccuracies this way.

Payment for goods has been fully repaid in fact the UK made the final payment about 3-4 years ago.

Rail guns or the England gun as it was known within German circles was still in the development stage when the D Day landings took place...so you are out by a few years there.

The Nazi's rocket V2 installations were still in effect more or less until the end of the war..we are talking months here not years...again night raids were cause of the installations demise not daylight raids.

The US were the people making daylight raids on a regular basis the nazi's were not

The invasion of England would have succeeded in 1940 after the Battle of Britain as the RAF was on it's knees and the country but the Nazi's didn't realise this and lost the advantage they had...the US was not fighting at this point.

America never decoded the Enigma machine..they captured one in but that was their limit...don't believe U571 (whatever the film was called..if you have it on dvd watch the end credits) The code was cracked at Bletchley in England by english code breakers before the US ever got their hands on a machine.

U Boats had an effect (not the effect the propoganda machine said though) but they were crippled very quickly (bases) by english bomber night raids.

Churchill made errors sure but the Charge of the light brigade was in the Crimea war before Churchill was born...and it was aledged to be a misunderstanding by the soldiers who made the charge and yes it was a defeat even though they overran the enemies position.

US tactics in WWI had already been tried by the French and English, before 1917 when the Americans joined the war.

Tactics within Vietnam applied to Iraq are totally different war theatres so you can't apply anything learnt in Vietnam to Iraq and nor did I.

Your post actually illustrates the point of the thread....you have believed what you have read/been told via hearsay and movies.

[Muzikman]

He wasn't. He was Austrian.

Damn, beat me to it.

[manike]

The British captured the Enigma. Don't get all your history from bad movies.

I HATE the way American movies take such liberty with the facts of history.

It causes issues like this one being discussed.

Your post actually illustrates the point of the thread....you have believed what you have read/been told via hearsay and movies.

Absolutely.

[Muzikman]

What is interesting is how history changed over time. I mean, it's amazing how when you read books written in 1919 by American authors and published by American plublishing companies about WWI differ a lot from what I learned in 4 semesters of US History in college. I have a 10 volume set of books from 1919 called "The World War". At the time I was taking my US History classes in college I read these books and realized that facts were actually different between the books published just after the war and books published 80 years after the war. It really threw me for a loop and I never could figure out which I should believe.

[manike]

What is interesting is how history changed over time. I mean, it's amazing how when you read books written in 1919 by American authors and published by American plublishing companies about WWI differ a lot from what I learned in 4 semesters of US History in college. I have a 10 volume set of books from 1919 called "The World War". At the time I was taking my US History classes in college I read these books and realized that facts were actually different between the books published just after the war and books published 80 years after the war. It really threw me for a loop and I never could figure out which I should believe.

Very true, and then imagine who was writing the books further back in history?

Makes you really wonder if 'any' of our history can really be trusted. All old books were written by people that won the battles or events. They could have written what they liked. And often did to appease the people who did win etc.

Already in our recent history we see people changing history and it getting accepted by many. Your books are an example, and the Movie about the Enigma machine is another.

Get enough people to believe something... and it's true.

[cris8762]

MarkM, pretty much everything you said in your first post with regards to WWI and WWII, minus the parts about the Enigma (didnt go over that) and the dumb American Generals in WWI, was what we learned in high school in my various World History and AP US History classes.

[xXHavokXx]

We all know why America entered the war.


Morale of foreign women. Wherever our troops go they are rockstars to women who need that powerful American lovin. While the limey's were off fighting and getting buzz bombed the poor women of England needed something new, then came fresh faced Americans with their "mastadonic " "equipment" (Emperor Hiriohito, Ep310 south Park). The British women called their girlfriends in France who started the French Resitance (manly giving STD's to German troops) so they could get a piece of the action, bla blah blah war ended and all the womens of europe were enjoying that new world flavor.

Plus if you really think about it, the US had thousands upon thousands of troops in Europe and More in the Pacific fighting at the same time. The Brits had to do alot of work as we were stretching ourselves pretty thin. As far as daylight bombing was concerned It had to be done, we were more accurate during the day and the brits called dibs on nighttime. Now Germany had no rest, day and night destruction and fighting off attacks all day long.....then the P51 came along and US day time raids became more and more effective as the Mustang was escorting and serving up the Luftwaffe . Which wouldnt have been a huge factor had we had continental bases but france had to surrender in like 45 minutes and then COLLABORATE but hey you work with what you got.

[HoppysMag]

My French exchange student friend was taught in school that their people fought valiently when the Germans invaded them.
We Americans joke all the time that they surrendered and got sacked up the butt twice.

the french people posed THE GREATEST RESISTANCE known to man kind... the french government rolled over in what, 2 weeks?

as for ww1 and 2... my basic view is we bought the war, the soviets died, the brits held on. the matter of daylight vs night bombings was a matter of we had more planes and men to loose, and germany needed to be bombed. so if we have the resources why not bomb during the day, and let the brits fly nightm as they had less to spare, or so iv been told.

and actualy i believ the pollish captured the enigma, and was then sent to england... im unsure on that.