How do we fix AO?

[TMAXXKING1]

you said it all

Phil Carroll is one of the most decent straight up guys that I have met in paintball. Regardless of your position on this non-sensical BS that's coming down on the AO community, at the very least recognize that a good man decided to walk away from a job that didn't pay him a single cent. It was a labor of love by a man who did it for those he hardly knew.

The lost of some members who were given a venue to voice their opinions pales in comparison to a man who had a tangible hand in keeping AO what it was day in day out.

This is indeed the biggest shame of this whole debacle. A shame that we should all share in.

you said it all................

if we dont see some pic's of the scoot's on here soon we will have to put this pic on the side of every case of paint.. sold in america...

have you seen this man we need him back on ao

[bofh]

im sure theres no harm in it. The mods usually tell why someone was banned when you corner them and directly ask them. I just think it seems like a lot of work for them to make a big police report type of thing everytime they enforce the rules.

All it really might be is a paragraph, or maybe a few lines, and maybe a link to the offend action.

This would save them the trouble of having to answer any pm's on the subject, or repeat themselves in the chat or online.

[AssassN]

What made AO good?

Everyone knew everyone else. It was like one big family. No one hardly ever fought. I don't want to point fingers esspecially(sp?) because I haven't been around for awhile and don't really know whats going on but it seems like it started going down hill about the time that whole Collegeboy thing was going on.

What still makes it good?

I dunno I haven't been around.

What has changed?

New people. Topics in the friendly corner arn't nearly as much fun. No one seems as fun loving as they used to be.

How do we improve it?

Free pie for everyone?

I don't think its something that the mods can fix, it's something the community has to do.

[fcpchop]

Its really a sad day when we, as a community, drive one of the most active and respected mods to leaving. What does this say about us? This should really be a lesson to alot of the newer people who complain about mods and dont realize that they (the members) are the problem not the mods.

[Smoken]

How do we fix AO?
AO cannot be "fixed," because it is not a website or forum that can be moderated. The true AO, in my mind at least, is a special group I belonged to for a time over a year ago. I hope that group has not disappeared completely.
Automags.org was only a medium for this group to express ideas and share in a common interest. One can only talk paintball so long with his family and friends before they think he is nuts and a nerd. On AO, the discussion could be continued indeffinately because we were all interested in mags and paintball in general-- its history, the technology, its future. This group of people may not have been anyone's dearest friends in the world, but it was a group of genuinely good people who would give an whole lot to make sure someone had a great day on the field or in the forums.
These were people who would vibrantly discuss the ins and outs of how mags worked. Although TK is a genius, I am sure that the intelligence in some of these discussions spawned new products for AGD-- not slight among these, Level 10. Not to say that TK didn't design it, but I am almost certain from the posts back then that he got important insight and new ideas form us. This was awesome to be on the pioneering edge of products for our beloved markers. Without TK, I'm not certain that this aspect of the forum can possibly continue. TK believed in AO, I am sure of this. He loved it, and it showed. He spoke to me and a few others for over 12 hours at one of the very few Southern California AO events. I felt I had a friend in him and other AO members, though I rarely if ever saw them in person. That's just the way it was back then, people respected each other.

I just recently returned to the world of paintball after a long hiatus. I was deeply saddened to find that Tom had retired and to find AO in a state that does seem frightening. Get rid of the BAN LIST. I was literally scared to continue even browsing the sight after seeing that. Such things would not have been dreamt of in the old AO. Some members do not deserve to be here, that is shown by their posts. To those that exemplify the attitude of honor and respect in the old AO, post often and do not ever stoop to the level of those scum who would destroy the ideal of AO with idiocy and hate. I hope that as I return to paintball AO can still be a place where good information and conversation can be found. I hope to see some of you on the field.

P.S. Are DirtyBunny and Roguefactor still around (I can't remember the handles of some of the others I've met, speak up if you're still here)?

[SpecialBlend2786]

P.S. Are DirtyBunny and Roguefactor still around (I can't remember the handles of some of the others I've met, speak up if you're still here)?

DB doesn't post that much anymore, I think he's taking a break from paintball.

Rogue is still alive and kicking, has a couple of new products out as well.

[Target Practice]

Get rid of the BAN LIST.

NO. That list is one of the best things that has happened to AO.

[SpecialBlend2786]

NO. That list is one of the best things that has happened to AO.

agreed. It's nice to see the mods reasoning for doing what they do, as opposed to just being in the dark.

[warpig13]

This Necropost has a purpose guys.


AO has been in this situation before.
We have had the problem of "opressive mods".


I Necro posted this thread for you guys to go back and read this thread.
Figure out for yourselves what needs to be done.

[behemoth]

Is it really broken, or just a matter of things changing over time?

Its not just broke, its pretty darn near FUBAR. A few squeeky wheels weren't oiled, and the whole machine has exploded.

What made AO good?

It used to be fun, laid back, with a very solid group of "old timers" that contributed and made these forums entertaining enjoyable... recently the fun has been gone.

What still makes it good?

A few old timers are still around.

What has changed?

The old timers left for a variety of reasons, not limited to a rather large influx of kiddies who don't understand the AO culture we had a few years ago.

How do we improve it?

Bring back the old AO culture, it won't happen by coddling newbies and ostrisizing old timers.

---Fred

qft.

Sad to say, but most of them oldtimers are gone.

[thecavemankevin]

i've been gone for a few months...what did i miss?

[p8ntbal4me]

Yeah, that's a problem. There's often a background story that others are not aware of, and then do not understand why we take certain actions. We should not have to explain it everytime.

I think this is one of the areas where forums (not just the AO) fail with their moderators.

The forum is a PUBLIC place with PUBLIC knowlege. To add personal or "behind the scenes" reasons where people/members can not fully see whats going on except for the few and the moderated, this leads to members of one group baning against others because sides must be chosen based on lack of public information.

There should be no reason for statments like: "you dont know the whole story".

If this is the case, then the information/post should have never been posted and simply deleted with a logical and complete explenation of the action taken by a moderator. Not simply: "He knows what he did".

I beleve in "cphil"s answer where the older guys have been and gone and the younger guys have come on in. In the same breath, the game is not the same and the older guys are now the once younger guys. The forum needs to change for the times, which, IMHO it has not.

Like wise the moderators need to change as well. I feel that some have done their "job" while some have not. Its not a base or line of how you judge success or failure but simply "its time for someone else to step up to the plate". And all this changes with time. I know from personal experience that I am more active in working on my personal projects and posting here on the AO between November-March because Im a seasonal worker. So I can be on here to troll for spam and porn and report it the second I see it. Maybe selecting moderators that have non-overlaping time to spend on the AO might be something to look into.

~ P8nt

[Lohman446]

There should be no reason for statments like: "you dont know the whole story".

If this is the case, then the information/post should have never been posted and simply deleted with a logical and complete explenation of the action taken by a moderator. Not simply: "He knows what he did".

Personally I think members expect explanations where none is due them.

[teufelhunden]

Personally I think members expect explanations where none is due them.

It's a bit of a catch 22. I don't think there needs to be complete transparency but on the other hand when not everything is available people come to conclusions on imperfect information, which what leads both to the 05 situation as well as this one.

I guess then that a step which could be taken would be to explain a general overview of what has led to action but not go into any serious depth, which as I understand was the purpose of the ban list. Maybe this needs to be revisited on a case by case basis?


Retrospectively, both situations have also occurred when AO members were involved in a group outside of AO; in the prior case, it would be the Thorums and AO IRC; presently, it's PBL. Those outside venues allow the banned to voice one side of a story to gain sympathy and make the mods look like the bad guys. Un/fortunately for us, the mods here tend to elevate themselves out of the muck and avoid saying anything, which makes the information available only what comes from the "victim." I'm not advocating people to not associate outside of AO, of course, but it leads to cliques and such, upon which the lines have been drawn with regard to these events.

[p8ntbal4me]

Personally I think members expect explanations where none is due them.

I agree with half of that, and Im assuming your meaning.

The part I dont agree with is the actions taken by a mod to ban someone, then not tell why.

They should be required to say why the action taken was made per what rule. If the mod does not give a valid reason for their punishment, the mod should be removed.

Checks and balance is what Im getting at.

Mods have the luxury of NOT being banned for opinion. If they feel someone did something wrong, they act upon it. Problem is, sometimes the rules are not followed by the users as well as the mods. And I think some of the problem steams from that point.

Im not perfect. I would not make a good mod for a site like this. I barely make a good member IMHO. I do see the problem as most of us do.

All I want is for the solution to be found.

~ P8nt