Jesus made Head leave KoRn...

[Chris42050]

Chris;

Magic men are created, but God by the very definition is and was and always will be-no matter if you think he is or not. If you think science is the answer and that science is truth, you have not studied science at all. Science is a methodology for observation-nothing more and nothing less.

The only proof of God you will ever get is self evident in his creation. Look all around you. The odds that all these things happened by accident is, statistically speaking, impossible. when you have kids, look at them and tell me they are an accident of nature. You obviously don't understand the big questions in life-I hope someday you do.

BTW: In before the lock!

Yeah, God is more statcistally possible than any of the scientific theories. Give me a break. How can you blindly follow somthing without any proof or evidence to back it up, especially something so silly as God. Where did God come from? Your convenient answer is God was, always and will-be. Really how is this possible? I would like you to tell me. I am sure you will come up with a convenient yet rediculous answer as well. It seems like a very far fetched statistically improbable idea to me.

[Sk8ermog]

well Chris you did answer your own question. God has always existed and we can't explain it. Our minds where never made to understand it. If we had all the answers to these question then where would faith come into play? God doesn't want fallowers who take everything only on proof and evidence like Doubting Thomas (John 20:24-30). He has ask us to have Faith in His Word (the Bible) and His Son Jesus.

Speaking of the Bible I think it's about time we brought that into the discussion. Here is a passage I found to be fitting:

Romans 1:16-23

16. I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 17. For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: so that men are without excuse.

21. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23. and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

[Chris42050]

well Chris you did answer your own question. God has always existed and we can't explain it. Our minds where never made to understand it. If we had all the answers to these question then where would faith come into play? God doesn't want fallowers who take everything only on proof and evidence like Doubting Thomas (John 20:24-30). He has ask us to have Faith in His Word (the Bible) and His Son Jesus.

Speaking of the Bible I think it's about time we brought that into the discussion. Here is a passage I found to be fitting:

Romans 1:16-23

16. I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 17. For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: so that men are without excuse.

21. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23. and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

Like I said convenient yet rediculous answers. You have to have faith becasue we have no proof. God wasnt created he always exists because we have no answer to how he came to be.

[Boski51]

Chris;

Good luck on your search. Maybe one day all this will not be so rediculous to you. I was once like you and thought that god was a joke, a myth or an invisible magician. How wrong I was. Thank God he welcomes back his kids with open arms!!!!!!

[jekyll]

Like I said convenient yet rediculous answers. You have to have faith becasue we have no proof. God wasnt created he always exists because we have no answer to how he came to be.

I can see God in peoples lives and in his works. I can feel him when I have sinned and when I have done his work. To me, that is more "proof" than any scientific theory can claim to have.

[toolfan62]

does it even matter...believe in what u want or dont believe in anything at all..its all your personal opinion and thats what makes you 'you'. you cant really argue this point because no side really has a true exact answer.

[Stix]

Yeah, God is more statcistally possible than any of the scientific theories. Give me a break. How can you blindly follow somthing without any proof or evidence to back it up, especially something so silly as God. Where did God come from? Your convenient answer is God was, always and will-be. Really how is this possible? I would like you to tell me. I am sure you will come up with a convenient yet rediculous answer as well. It seems like a very far fetched statistically improbable idea to me.

I applaud you for both your candor and civility in this matter. We all know how conversations such as this can go the pieces very quickly, so I thank you for being a nice guy about it all, and being open.

Let's go back to the illustration with the 10,000 piece puzzle again, shall we? We all know, without a doubt, that the cell, or the creation of a planet is much more complicated than a 10k piece puzzle. I take it we also realize, that without a set coming together of certain elements in a specific order in near perfect succesion, we wouldn't be standing on this rock we call earth, right? Therefore, 10k piece puzzle should be a piece of cake relative to the creation of a planet.

So let's take a paper bag, stuff a 10k piece puzzle inside, shake it up, and see if someone will be able to have the puzzle come out perfectly. Let's have everyone in the world do it too, to increase the odds. Let's do this for 10 generations. I'm sure none of you would hold your breath waiting for a successful pull; I certainly would not. Why not? Because of the number's involved of course! The pieces would all have to be in perfect position inside the paper bag; so that would be 1 position of out the millions of possibilities of all the arrangements of pieces inside the bag. The only limit in possibilities is due to the volume of the bag, and that would still be a lot of possibilities. So I would imagine if we used a smaller bag, the more chance we would have at a succesful pull, which still will not be much. Also, I'm sure we see that for every extra piece we introudce to the system, the chances of a successful pull go down significantly as well.

Let's apply the same analogy to a planet, where the elements are the pieces, the planet is the puzzle complete, and the universe as the paper bag. Suffice to say, all other theories of how planets came to be is very much like what we described above; a random scattering of particles that somehow get squished together perfectly. Like the puzzle, we need all these specific pieces going together... and we know a planet is much more complicated than puzzle. We also know that because our observation of entropy, the universe is expanding by every moment that elapses. Because of this, n possibilites of possible of arrangements goes up accordingly per moment, because the volume is whatever the universe is (and that's big), is constantly going up. So constantly your chances of generating a planet keeps going down. By a lot.

Of course, you could just quicken the whole puzzle thing by having someone arrange the pieces...

[Chris42050]

I have kinda exhausted my point of view on this topic. I would just be repeating myself if I posted anymore. I do want to say that I am amazed that this topic lasted 3 pages. Both that the Mods did not close it and that we all managed to remain civil in the discussion. I am glad none of you took it personal that I was attacking your religous beleifs. I thought the whole discussion was pretty interesting.

[Boski51]

Me too.

[Sk8ermog]

some valid points where made and some bagering happened, but all in all I would agree that it is nice this didn't get too out of hand and that the mods left it. I'm sure this might be the stepping stone for future discussions and debates. I just hope the rest of them will be as civil as this one was/is. It's interesting to see where many AOers stand in their beliefs. I've been praying for the AO forum, members, and mods for along time now and I will continue to do so in the hopes that the forum will stay clean and professional. I will also be praying that many of you will discover that like Head from Korn, having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is more important then being in a band, playing paintball or anything else.

[cockerkiller68]

some valid points where made and some bagering happened, but all in all I would agree that it is nice this didn't get too out of hand and that the mods left it. I'm sure this might be the stepping stone for future discussions and debates. I just hope the rest of them will be as civil as this one was/is. It's interesting to see where many AOers stand in their beliefs. I've been praying for the AO forum, members, and mods for along time now and I will continue to do so in the hopes that the forum will stay clean and professional. I will also be praying that many of you will discover that like Head from Korn, having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is more important then being in a band, playing paintball or anything else.

WORD!!


If anyone has questions regarding any of this you can PM any "mogs" on AO and I'm sure they'll be happy to try and answer anything or help out in any way possible.

"Taste and see that the Lord is good."

[MarkM]

I have kinda exhausted my point of view on this topic. I would just be repeating myself if I posted anymore. I do want to say that I am amazed that this topic lasted 3 pages. Both that the Mods did not close it and that we all managed to remain civil in the discussion. I am glad none of you took it personal that I was attacking your religous beleifs. I thought the whole discussion was pretty interesting.

Although it is says about religious subjects should be avoided, healthly debate is allowed and even the odd political thread has been left alone. If things remain civil the threads will always remain even if the subject matter is one that can spin to another angle. Once a thread degenerates into the "this sux you (insert whatever you like)" then of course the thread is going the way of the Dodo. Try and start a thread about religion and that will be closed immediately. IE "Jesus saves" etc etc. On some people this sutle difference is lost but on many others like this thread it isn't. I will not add to the comments other than to say for all future reference myself personally I don't believe and have reasons for this but they are personal and I will not post them but as long as no-one attempts to ram religion of any kind down my throat I won't be locking a thread...assuming it follows the lines this one has as opposed to the "Jesus/Brahma/Buddha/Vishnu saves" type of thread.

[SIGSays]

i'd care if it was rap... lol

[-Tab]

I will also be praying that many of you will discover that like Head from Korn, having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is more important then being in a band, playing paintball or anything else.

*tear*

couldn't have said it better myself!
that deserves an



AMEN

[kauai_paintball]

You people who hate Christianity: Why do you hate it? Dont tell me it's because it "brainwashes" or because God has a vendetta against you.

This is similar to the thousands of posers who claim to hate SP, but then SP's patent didnt really affect them or they dont know why. Dont go around saying having a personal relationship with your creator is crap when you have never known one. That is just like saying "I dont like pasta", but then again you have never tried pasta. God has instructed me to send this message to you. If you dont like it, take it up with the Big Guy himself. But Never, NEVER say christianity sucks when you have never known the amazing warmth and benefits from having a relationship with the One who gave His own life for you just because He loves you.

out.