UCLA student tasered by campus police for not showing ID

[tribalman]

that could have gotten ugly real fast, especially when they were into the foyer. lots of angry "intelligent" students thinking they are in the right. /idiots. i think blame resides on both parties. but inital is on the student. 3 tazes is excessive, after they got him into the foyer, they could have just dragged him out. there was room. and you typically get the person outta there before they cause even more trouble. he already was playing to the crowd, so get him outta there. i've had people dragged outta my store before, there is enough room in a door way to drag people out. i think the student did that whole thing on purpose. trying to protest the patriot act or thought at least thought he was. i think he is going to try and play the race card (Mostafa Tabatabainejad, definatly not a typical white anglo-saxon name).

to everybody who ever tries the stupid "i pay taxes, you work for me" line(which i'm sure is running through everybody's in that computer lab brain), police funding is provided by property taxes. so no, little johny living in the dorms doesn't pay for his salary and isn't their "boss".


qft
"Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and higher education positively fortifies it. "
Stephen Vizinczey

[Armory]

Excessive force absolutely, I didn't see the guy twisting and turning (till he was tased) and scence I didn't hear exactly why they where attempting to detain him does that give them the right to tase the We do not cuss on AO. Repeat violations will result in a ban. Army out of some college kid. If he was standing there not moving he wasn't provoking the officers. When he failed to comply then they can detain him and drag him out but using a taser just to get someone to move when your asking for a freaking ID badge and there's 4 officers there? Come on...

[Lohman446]

He was not tasered for not having ID, quit trying to dramatize it. He was tasered for resisting a lawful order. You cannot figuratively flip off authority without repercussion. The officers could make the argument that he was trespassing and refused to leave - I am not sure on what rental rights one has in a dorm, but they surely did not beleive he had a right to be there.

[evildead420]

after the tazed him the time when people were going WTF and going out to the hall, i would of got the some of the students and beat the officers , seriously, that was way out of line from them, even though the student was being a little Do not cuss on AO. I will ban you if you do so again. Army, repeatin tazing that guy is uncalled for, they could of just dragged him. that video defently made me mad.

[geekwarrior]

after the tazed him the time when people were going WTF and going out to the hall, i would of got the some of the students and beat the officers ***. seriously, that was way out of line from them, even though the student was being a little *****, repeatin tazing that guy is uncalled for, they could of just dragged him. that video defently made me mad.

no you wouldnt have.

[Lohman446]

after the tazed him the time when people were going WTF and going out to the hall, i would of got the some of the students and beat the officers EDIT seriously, that was way out of line from them, even though the student was being a little EDIT, repeatin tazing that guy is uncalled for, they could of just dragged him. that video defently made me mad.

Good to see you have a respect for rules and authority....


Taser: Pretty well known risks to using one - very effective and range, allowing one to watch the rest of the crowd. Fairly quick.

Physical force: Swinging a baton probably is riskier to the suspect than a taser. His movement may cause you to hit soft areas. It is also less effective. It also puts your firearm in raech of suspect. It also requires more "engagement" than a taser, less watching the hostile crowd.

Im sorry, tell me again what the best tactical decision was once it was decided the suspect presented a threat?

[Flamebo]

Why does everyone think the police have to play fair? Why should they have to wrestle with him, and thereby get their firearms within his reach, when they can just tase him a few times? And police seldon grab someone under the arms and pull them, just for that reason. If he didn't get the tase, he'd probably have gotten some nasty pressure-point control, or thrown to the ground and cuffed.

Why do the police have to play fair?? I can't even comprehend what you might have intended by that statement. First of all, it's one guy and there were 3 "trained police officers" there, minimum. You're implying that they are incapable of handcuffing a person without causing a huge scene, which is entirely absurd. If he really *had* to be removed, cuff him first then drag him out and that would be that. There's no reason to screw around and argue and start ELECTROCUTING people in some sort of pissing match because they have a personal vendetta against someone for making their night not go as smoothly as they'd like. Personally, I'd take thrown to the ground and cuffed any day before getting tased, though I think even that would be unnecessary.

People die from TASERS, and they continued to use it on him after he said he had a medical condition. Police are trained to believe that the use of them is harmless and basically a notch above handcuffing a suspect. When compared to the use of live ammunition yes, it's much less lethal. However, to use it on a person non-violently resisting arrest is excessive force. The fact that they routinely use these things on children completely blows my mind.

That not enough for you? When other students requested the officers name and badge numbers, they simply started threatening to start tasing everyone that asked a question or challenged the idea that what they did was completely insane. If you ask a on-duty cop for their name and badge number, they are REQUIRED to give it to you without arguing. These police knew they were out of line. They were pissed off that they had to deal with "whiney" students that (god forbid) know their rights and that the cops overstepped their bounds. Had they known they were being taped by another student, they probably would have had the sense to deal with the situation in a more civil manner.

As to the Patriot Act comments, probably not the best argument to his situation, but after just after getting a few hundred thousand volts zapped through your system, I'd like to see you come up with a more coherent response. It is NOT used appropriately on someone passively resisting. If the kid say, threw a punch or grabbed for the cops gun, then zap his dumb butt. Since he did not, this was gross misuse of force.

Perhaps I'm biased. I know I have rights, and I won't hesitate to stand up for them if a police officer or anyone else decides they'd like to try and infringe on those rights. In my dealings with police officers, the majority are perfectly reasonable individuals and there's a handful of Flamebo, as you are one of the most senior members of AO, I expect better useage of communication skills. Armywho misinterpret their authority as power. I also attend Kent State University, which I think has a good handle on the idea of "excessive force". And as a college student, I believe that any person should have "the liberty to express themselves and show what they know", and can't understand the reasoning behind anyone who uses that statement like it's some sort of character flaw to believe in such liberties.

[geekwarrior]

Good to see you have a respect for rules and authority....


Taser: Pretty well known risks to using one - very effective and range, allowing one to watch the rest of the crowd. Fairly quick.

Physical force: Swinging a baton probably is riskier to the suspect than a taser. His movement may cause you to hit soft areas. It is also less effective. It also puts your firearm in raech of suspect. It also requires more "engagement" than a taser, less watching the hostile crowd.

Im sorry, tell me again what the best tactical decision was once it was decided the suspect presented a threat?

QFT



I also think most people arent familiar with the rules and the amount of latitude cops are given in this type of situation...I think most people would be suprised.

[Lohman446]

People die from TASERS, and they continued to use it on him after he said he had a medical condition. Police are trained to believe that the use of them is harmless and basically a notch above handcuffing a suspect. When compared to the use of live ammunition yes, it's much less lethal. However, to use it on a person non-violently resisting arrest is excessive force. The fact that they routinely use these things on children completely blows my mind.

People die (with medical conditons) from being handcuffed, and physical force. Poor argument.

That not enough for you? When other students requested the officers name and badge numbers, they simply started threatening to start tasing everyone that asked a question or challenged the idea that what they did was completely insane. If you ask a on-duty cop for their name and badge number, they are REQUIRED to give it to you without arguing. These police knew they were out of line. They were pissed off that they had to deal with "whiney" students that (god forbid) know their rights and that the cops overstepped their bounds. Had they known they were being taped by another student, they probably would have had the sense to deal with the situation in a more civil manner.

Probably not. Urban legend? Documentation?

Perhaps I'm biased. I know I have rights, and I won't hesitate to stand up for them if a police officer or anyone else decides they'd like to try and infringe on those rights. In my dealings with police officers, the majority are perfectly reasonable individuals and there's a handful of ***-holes who misinterpret their authority as power. I also attend Kent State University, which I think has a good handle on the idea of "excessive force". And as a college student, I believe that any person should have "the liberty to express themselves and show what they know", and can't understand the reasoning behind anyone who uses that statement like it's some sort of character flaw to believe in such liberties.

Proper dealing is very very seldom resistance. Such people are best dealt with after the situation with there superiors.

The best thing to do was to get this "threat" out of the area before the crowd turned hostile. This was probably the most sound tactical method to do so. Again, this is not just some random person, the officers beleived him a threat for a reason.

[Army]

California law. When asked by law enforcement personnel to show ID, you must, or face arrest.


He didn't, and discovered the consequence of failing to comply with a Police officer.

[Flamebo]

college students seem to think that because they are in an institution to better themself that it gives them the liberty to express themselves and show what they know.

It does not. I believe the Constitution itself gives all citizens such liberties.

if an officer of the law puts their hands on you its for a reason.

Any action has a reason behind it, it's the legitimacy of the reason that is in question.

and no matter what the police are always to blame.

Absolutely not. They should always be accountable for their actions like anybody else, however.

the kid could have been a fed up student who was planning a school shooting and these idiots are over here asking for badge numbers.

He wasn't. He was just a legitimate student in a computer lab who happened to forget his ID, and happened to have parents of Iranian descent. To assume that anyone meeting the above criteria is planning a school shooting is completely ridiculous. Those "idiots" are simply people looking for accountability, and I'm suprised they showed as much restraint as they did after witnessing that.

...once it was decided the suspect presented a threat?

I watched a video of an angry kid arguing by nonetheless attempting to comply by leaving without getting manhandled by police. Who decided that he was a threat?

[geekwarrior]

The best thing to do was to get this "threat" out of the area before the crowd turned hostile. This was probably the most sound tactical method to do so. Again, this is not just some random person, the officers beleived him a threat for a reason.

I think people are going too much off emotion on this...that or i'm watching a different vid. You can't tell what the guy was doing before he got zapped, you can't see him most of the time so you don't know if he's resisting or not. We also don't know if he has a history with the police. He was also repeatedly warned that he was going to get zapped, and chose to let them do it. If he couldnt stand up after the first time like some people in here are claiming, than he should have told them that.

[Lohman446]

He wasn't. He was just a legitimate student in a computer lab who happened to forget his ID, and happened to have parents of Iranian descent.

Funny how you forget the important part

AND FAILED TO COMPLY WITH A LAWFUL ORDER

So, he was unable to prove he should be there, and failed to leave when asked = threat.

[Steelrat]

Why do the police have to play fair?? I can't even comprehend what you might have intended by that statement. First of all, it's one guy and there were 3 "trained police officers" there, minimum. You're implying that they are incapable of handcuffing a person without causing a huge scene, which is entirely absurd. If he really *had* to be removed, cuff him first then drag him out and that would be that. There's no reason to screw around and argue and start ELECTROCUTING people in some sort of pissing match because they have a personal vendetta against someone for making their night not go as smoothly as they'd like. Personally, I'd take thrown to the ground and cuffed any day before getting tased, though I think even that would be unnecessary.

I mean that they don't have to engage in a fair fight. The guy was resisting being led away by the arm, what makes you think that he would have allowed himself to be handcuffed? 75% of fights happen during handcuffing. Tasers are one of the ways that you would incapacitate someone in order to cuff them. Otherwise, it's a brawl, and tasers are one of the tools supplied so officers don't have to engage in a scuffle, or "fair fight." Why do you jump to the conclusion that they had a vendetta? Sounds like they were perfectly professional with him. Tasers are recognized as being non-lethal devices, and are accepted as such. Fatalities happen in many different instances, from OC to tasers to simple physical restraints.

People die from TASERS, and they continued to use it on him after he said he had a medical condition. Police are trained to believe that the use of them is harmless and basically a notch above handcuffing a suspect. When compared to the use of live ammunition yes, it's much less lethal. However, to use it on a person non-violently resisting arrest is excessive force. The fact that they routinely use these things on children completely blows my mind.

Suspects lie about crap all the time, from "physical conditions" to "cuffs being too tight." If he did, in fact, have a condition, it's really incumbent upon him to behave in a manner that doesn't place him into jeopardy. If a guy steals a TV, runs away from police, then collapses due to a heart condition, is that the police's fault? This guy should start fights with cops if he isn't physically capable of dealing with it. And you should really try to read up on use-of-force continuums before you start mouthing off about what is, and is not, appropriate. Passive (and active) resistance is EXACTLY the sort of situation that a taser should be used in. Close in physical scuffles are bad news, as they place an officer's firearm within reach of a suspect, and that has led to officer fatalities. Hence the use of tasers, which gives the officer a stand-off capacity.

That not enough for you? When other students requested the officers name and badge numbers, they simply started threatening to start tasing everyone that asked a question or challenged the idea that what they did was completely insane. If you ask a on-duty cop for their name and badge number, they are REQUIRED to give it to you without arguing. These police knew they were out of line. They were pissed off that they had to deal with "whiney" students that (god forbid) know their rights and that the cops overstepped their bounds. Had they known they were being taped by another student, they probably would have had the sense to deal with the situation in a more civil manner.

Care to show me where it is a requirement that the officers supply their information? The behavior of the students actually inflamed the situation, and probably forced the officers to deal with the situation quickly before a larger hostile situation developed. They should have sat down, shut up, and let the officers do their job. Creating a possible riot situation didn't help at all.

As to the Patriot Act comments, probably not the best argument to his situation, but after just after getting a few hundred thousand volts zapped through your system, I'd like to see you come up with a more coherent response. It is NOT used appropriately on someone passively resisting. If the kid say, threw a punch or grabbed for the cops gun, then zap his dumb butt. Since he did not, this was gross misuse of force.

If he lunged for their guns, the appropriate response would be to shoot him. If he tried to punch them, it's time for mace or a baton. Again, tasers are intended to be used for active and passive resistance.

Perhaps I'm biased. I know I have rights, and I won't hesitate to stand up for them if a police officer or anyone else decides they'd like to try and infringe on those rights. In my dealings with police officers, the majority are perfectly reasonable individuals and there's a handful of Flamebo, as you are one of the most senior members of AO, I expect better useage of communication skills. Armywho misinterpret their authority as power. I also attend Kent State University, which I think has a good handle on the idea of "excessive force". And as a college student, I believe that any person should have "the liberty to express themselves and show what they know", and can't understand the reasoning behind anyone who uses that statement like it's some sort of character flaw to believe in such liberties.

Sorry, but freedom of speech is not absolute. Try looking it up sometime.

[Steelrat]

after the tazed him the time when people were going WTF and going out to the hall, i would of got the some of the students and beat the officers , seriously, that was way out of line from them, even though the student was being a little Do not cuss on AO. I will ban you if you do so again. Army, repeatin tazing that guy is uncalled for, they could of just dragged him. that video defently made me mad.

You have no idea what you are talking about. If a bunch of students try to beat down police officers, they will end up getting shot. Think it's worth it? If so, it's proof of natural selection at work.