Va Tech shootings

[CoolHand]

wow. almost sounds like you're calling the students that died cowards for not rushing the attacker. everyone hear likes to talk tough, but I wonder how many would really react.

here's some details from what happened, a good read.

students stories

Well, I'm not going to insult a bunch of dead folks on a random internet forum, but my question stands. Which sounds better to you?

For me, I'd much rather go down fighting. If I'm gonna die anyway, what's there to lose? On the off chance that I DON'T die, I make it through the situation. If I do die, I'm no worse off than if I'd sat there and taken it. I don't see a down side.

But my mind doesn't necessarily work like everyone else's does though either.

[kosmo]

I prayed that an invisible blanket of protection be placed around me.

Gee, it must have worked. When I first heard about this, I assumed he mustve been fairly skilled to have killed 30 by himself based on previous similar incidents. But I guess I was wrong.

[Ole Unka Phil]

I think we may find there is evidence some of them did try and rush him. However if its not a coordinated rush it has only a slight chance of working.

It is also being reported by a couple of news agencies that as many as three students involved in the shooting had Concealed Weapons permits. Of course they did not have their carry weapons on them as they had to respect the Policy of the Unversity. More so there because it had been so publicly enforced the year before so they could not claim ignorance of the policy. Now... mind you.... I cannot seem to find confirmation of this yet. It just got mentioned yesterday. It was also mentioned in one of those stories that one of those CWP holders shoots competitively. What it did not clearly say was wether they are among the dead, wounded or survivors. So... we shall have to wait and see if that is just a rumor or not.

Here are some good reads...

http://www.aic.gov.au/media/2006/20060629.html

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/...ectid=10389920

http://www.aic.gov.au/stats/crime/assault.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/gun/Story/0,,1972703,00.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...6/ncrime06.xml
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=42167

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...2007,+11:31+AM

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics/ops...report2005.htm

http://www.calgunlaws.com/article-480.html

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=15077

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ore/facts.html

[beam]

Gee, it must have worked. When I first heard about this, I assumed he mustve been fairly skilled to have killed 30 by himself based on previous similar incidents. But I guess I was wrong.

Boy Kaptain Kenny...you have no klass.

No way did you just insult a survivor of this tragedy. Tell me I'm missing something here.

[billybob_81067]

Boy Kaptain Kenny...you have no klass.

No way did you just insult a survivor of this tragedy. Tell me I'm missing something here.

From how I read his post it, it was the gunman that "prayed for the invisible blanket of protection"

BUT I didn't read any of the news articles and such, so maybe not....

[geekwarrior]

From how I read his post it, it was the gunman that "prayed for the invisible blanket of protection"

BUT I didn't read any of the news articles and such, so maybe not....

[slade]

From how I read his post it, it was the gunman that "prayed for the invisible blanket of protection"

BUT I didn't read any of the news articles and such, so maybe not....

a survivor said that quote, and it would appear that kosmo is saying that he's an idiot for doing nothing in the situation but praying.

[Ole Unka Phil]

a survivor said that quote, and it would appear that kosmo is saying that he's an idiot for doing nothing in the situation but praying.

Did he survive? Did praying help him in keeping calm enough to play dead effectively? If so... sounds like it worked for him to me. Never underestimate the power of prayer...

[billybob_81067]

Well there ya go... I was wrong once again!

[kosmo]

I guess I just might be unsympathetic, but in my world cowards get people killed. Ive also seen plenty of death so as to not in the slightest bit feel like I have to treat anyone else whos seen it like a poor baby. If praying allowed him to be calm enough to play dead, then good for him. I hope he and everyone else who played dead is extremely grateful to have done nothing and survived while those around them were executed by one man with one gun. To those in the incident like the holocaust surviving teacher who took action to save others lives, they have my deepest sympathies.

Edit- Just thought about it a little more. The way I see it, there are people in this incident who acted heroically and cared for others. Then there are people involved in this incident who thought it a better idea to just play dead. All they wanted was to survive, they didnt care about what happened to anyone else. Human instinct or not, I do not respect that. If they dont care about others at all, then Im not going to give a crap about them.

[beam]

I guess I just might be unsympathetic, but in my world cowards get people killed. Ive also seen plenty of death so as to not in the slightest bit feel like I have to treat anyone else whos seen it like a poor baby. If praying allowed him to be calm enough to play dead, then good for him. I hope he and everyone else who played dead is extremely grateful to have done nothing and survived while those around them were executed by one man with one gun. To those in the incident like the holocaust surviving teacher who took action to save others lives, they have my deepest sympathies.

Edit- Just thought about it a little more. The way I see it, there are people in this incident who acted heroically and cared for others. Then there are people involved in this incident who thought it a better idea to just play dead. All they wanted was to survive, they didnt care about what happened to anyone else. Human instinct or not, I do not respect that. If they dont care about others at all, then Im not going to give a crap about them.

There's a difference between willingly putting yourself in a position to see death (you) and having that thrust upon you in a defensless setting (classroom)

You talk a big game, but if the muzzle is against your head, and you have no way out...well...just hope you don't find yourself there.

[Ole Unka Phil]

I don't have a problem at all with how someone choses to survive an ordeal that is not of his making and he has no means of defense. Hide, Flee or play dead. Afterall you are responsible only for your own self defense.

Now... granted, his actions should not increase the harm to another innocent. Such as grabbing a fellow student and using him/her as a shield. And granted that he does not have others there, such as children, wife etc that he wishes to include in his actions.

But, again, we are all responsible for our own defense. If we save others in the process, that would be nice. But its not a requirment.

After this was brought up, a thought crossed my mind...

What would an attacker do if he came into a room full of say... 40 people... pulled out his gun and shot one person... and immediately... without any rehersal or hesitation.... all of those 40 people dropped to the floor as if dead and played dead....

[Lohman446]

What would an attacker do if he came into a room full of say... 40 people... pulled out his gun and shot one person... and immediately... without any rehersal or hesitation.... all of those 40 people dropped to the floor as if dead and played dead....

The problem in the "what ifs" involves logic. Obviously the person who walks into a room and randomly starts shooting people is not logical. Trying to explain or consider based on logic is an incredibly difficult task.

[Lohman446]

There's a difference between willingly putting yourself in a position to see death (you) and having that thrust upon you in a defensless setting (classroom)

You talk a big game, but if the muzzle is against your head, and you have no way out...well...just hope you don't find yourself there.

There are very few truley defensless settings.

[beam]

There are very few truley defensless settings.

Can you elaborate on this for me? I agree that everyone has a brain and an instinct towards self preservation, but I was using the term defensless loosely.

Perhaps I should have used the word vulnerable.