Va Tech shootings

[bornl33t]

as predicted....poll in the middle of the page

gun control

the poll is biased !!

Gun control is not to blame for the shooting? (iow, limiting gun ownership is not to blame?)

It doesn't matter what you vote you are voting in favor of a gun ban?

[wjr]

Here are my opinions on this matter. I would like to preface my post by saying that I still respect your opinions, and I do not mean any of this to sound rude.

1) I do not think students carrying guns to school, ready to kill at a moments notice, would be conducive to a learning environment.

2) Students aren't being denied their rights by not being allowed guns to their school.

3) This was a freak incident and is not a common occurrence. There must have been signs in the kids behavior. The best way to prevent this kind of thing is to stop it before it starts, not after it reaches the boiling point.

Edit: Added another point

4) More security guards or police officers on campus would make more sense then the students patrolling themselves.

[PyRo]

Here are my opinions on this matter. I would like to preface my post by saying that I still respect your opinions, and I do not mean any of this to sound rude.

1) I do not think students carrying guns to school, ready to kill at a moments notice, would be conducive to a learning environment.

2) Students aren't being denied their rights by not being allowed guns to their school.

3) This was a freak incident and is not a common occurrence. There must have been signs in the kids behavior. The best way to prevent this kind of thing is to stop it before it starts, not after it reaches the boiling point.

Tell that to the dead people.

[wjr]

Tell that to the dead people.

Ummm... uh... What exactly are you trying to get at there?

I am horrified by the event, and I'm deeply sorry for the friends and families of those who were killed. It's terrible that one wacko out there can be able to do so much to affect the lives of others.

[mag_lover05]

death toll is now at 32 i belive.

[Aggravated Assault]

Here are my opinions on this matter. I would like to preface my post by saying that I still respect your opinions, and I do not mean any of this to sound rude.

1) I do not think students carrying guns to school, ready to kill at a moments notice, would be conducive to a learning environment.

2) Students aren't being denied their rights by not being allowed guns to their school.

3) This was a freak incident and is not a common occurrence. There must have been signs in the kids behavior. The best way to prevent this kind of thing is to stop it before it starts, not after it reaches the boiling point.

Edit: Added another point

4) More security guards or police officers on campus would make more sense then the students patrolling themselves.

Having a student (or students) or an employee(s) who can legaly cary a firearm and have access to a legaly owned firearm = people ready to kill at a moments notice?

How do you know there must have been signs of the kids behavior?

How do you know more security guards would have stopped this?

Absolute speculation at this point. This is a tragedy of unparalleled porportion. Its gonna take a little bit to sort things out and figure out what really happened. My heart goes out to those families involved in this.

[Lohman446]

Ready for this:

Even with a state issued concealed carry permit I am not allowed to carry a firearm onto a college campus. *If* someone was going to plan this out what better place than somewhere where the law abiding citizens will be unarmed. Not saying it would have changed things but a no weapon policy, well it might help in minor altercations (I doubt it), is more likely to draw this type of thing if the offender considers it. At least I think, no proof.

[Aggravated Assault]

Is this state by state, going back to the above bill, or a federal law?

[Ole Unka Phil]

Its what the person intent on evil considers a "Target Rich Environment". They are all disarmed and therefore denied thier right to protect themselves. If... you wish to do it with Law Enforement then your going to have to have one LE for ever student. Good luck with that. It is each persons right to protect him/her self. Those who can undergo the scrutiny and background check and training to obtain a Concealed Weapons Permit are not "ready to settle things with a gun at a moments notice" as you wish to imply. They are the LEAST likely to do so. But to put them at a disadvantage then you are directly responsible for the result. You might as well have loaded that guys gun for him. Because YOU made it all possible for him to kill 33 rather than one or two. Its not anyones right to deny a person his ability to meet force with equal force. If you can find a way to keep maniacs off the street then I am listening. However its not going to happen. So your not going to be able to assure me that YOU can provide protection.

Not everyone eligable will chose to carry. But it would have only taken one responsible person in the right place to have minimized this.



Gun laws only work on those who obey laws. And I am not afriad of the law obiding. You seem to be. You seem to assume that law obiding citizens are to be denied the right to self protection.

[Lohman446]

Is this state by state, going back to the above bill, or a federal law?

I don't know, its a condition of my handgun permit in MI. I don't know if thats to comply with federal law or just a state thing.

[Lohman446]

Here are my opinions on this matter. I would like to preface my post by saying that I still respect your opinions, and I do not mean any of this to sound rude.

1) I do not think students carrying guns to school, ready to kill at a moments notice, would be conducive to a learning environment.

2) Students aren't being denied their rights by not being allowed guns to their school.

3) This was a freak incident and is not a common occurrence. There must have been signs in the kids behavior. The best way to prevent this kind of thing is to stop it before it starts, not after it reaches the boiling point.

Edit: Added another point

4) More security guards or police officers on campus would make more sense then the students patrolling themselves.

Show me an example of someone LEGALLY and responsibly carrying a concealed weapon that is "ready to kill at a moments notice" except in the boundaries permitted by law?

How are students not being denied a right? Most campus security guards are not qualified or licensed to be armed, and are not (at least in my experience). Who is going to pay for the extra police presence?

[Ole Unka Phil]

It is all state by state. It is legal to allow carry at Va Tech. By Virginia Law it can be allowed. It was not. It was challenged but it was allowed for Va Tech to maintain its policy. My university has a similar no gun policy. It is allowed if there is permission by the Local Law Enforement agency by State law. Ours does not grant them except on a case by case basis. I am in disagrement with some of it. I believe this is a excellent example of that it does not work to deny properly licensed CWP's to carry on Campus.

[Lohman446]

To those against carrying, consider this. Facing an advesary who has shown that they are willing to kill someone I am going to resist. Many people like me are going to resist.

My life, and very likely the lives of others involved depend on my ability to effectively resist. I don't care if you have the mindset, training, or equipment to resist. Do you not prefer that I have every tool possible to make resistance effective?

[Ole Unka Phil]

Show me an example of someone LEGALLY and responsibly carrying a concealed weapon that is "ready to kill at a moments notice" except in the boundaries permitted by law?

How are students not being denied a right? Most campus security guards are not qualified or licensed to be armed, and are not (at least in my experience). Who is going to pay for the extra police presence?

Many of them are Municipalities (Cities) on their own. Va Tech is one and has a full police force. Duly sworn and fully capable of doing LE work. However I doubt they have much more manpower per student than any other city has per resident. Not enough to be there every minute. They might have 20-30 total officers for 26,000 students. And not all on one shift. I would bet there is no more than 12 officers on duty at any one time there.

[geekwarrior]

2 9mm hand guns, all those clips, chained doors....jeez