Va Tech shootings

[geekwarrior]

You dont seem to comprehend that people all over the country and the world who arent in the military have been through more difficult circumstances and have acted more appropriately than praying for an "invisible blanket of protection" (invisible qualifies in any rational persons mind as magical). My tactical training has nothing to do with my desire to kill people who try to kill me. Either way, youre a fool.

i'm sure some of the other people who just laid there were atheist. you act like the only people playing dead were religious. funny that you guys hate religion so much that out of a tragedy like this, the thing that you focus on is someone's faith.

[warbeak2099]

i'm sure some of the other people who just laid there were atheist. you act like the only people playing dead were religious. funny that you guys hate religion so much that out of a tragedy like this, the thing that you focus on is someone's faith.

The thing I focus on is undeciveness and cowardice. If the Jewish professor hadn't acted alone and others had risen to the occasion to help him, Cho could have been subdued. But you defend them for letting the old man die. He was the only hero in the story. I'm sorry, but students just sitting in their seats while a gunman walks down the aisles randomly executing them?

[geekwarrior]

One more thing about all of this. I have a problem when something like this goes down and we as the general public point fingers at law enforcement, administration, survivors, etc.

.

i fell asleep through most of my psychology classes, but i do remember discussing this, and there's a term for it, but it doesn't come to mind. It deals with those who don't go through the ordeal coming up with all sorts of excuses why this happened to those people, and how this wouldn't happen to them or they would do something different.

[warbeak2099]

I think it's safe to say that if Cho had been shot dead it wouldn't have turn out like this. Is that really disputable?

[beam]

You dont seem to comprehend that people all over the country and the world who arent in the military have been through more difficult circumstances and have acted more appropriately than praying for an "invisible blanket of protection" (invisible qualifies in any rational persons mind as magical). My tactical training has nothing to do with my desire to kill people who try to kill me. Either way, youre a fool.

Your tactical training has nothing to do with your desire to kill people who try to kill you...yeah...I'll give you that. But it does have something to do with your ability to kill someone who is trying to kill you.

I just can't believe that there are people here who have the gall...the ever loving freaking gall to say that "if they would have done this...then blah blah blah."

You my friend are made for management. Go for it. Criticize others for what they could have done better in a position that you have never found yourself in.

I don't think I have ever heard of a person who has come through a tragic situation, criticize those who didn't make and how they should have acted to make it out alive.

That would take nuts.

Faith or no faith...prayer or no prayer. There isn't a person on this board who should be criticizing any of the survivors what they did or didn't do.

[beam]

I think it's safe to say that if Cho had been shot dead it wouldn't have turn out like this. Is that really disputable?

Obviously. And I am totally in support of law abinding citizens having the right to carry a concealed weapon for protection of themself and others.

What I have a problem with...and what lit my fire, was Kosmo having the audacity to call a survivor of this tragedy an "idiot"

[warbeak2099]

Obviously. And I am totally in support of law abinding citizens having the right to carry a concealed weapon for protection of themself and others.

What I have a problem with...and what light my fire, was Kosmo having the audacity to call a survivor of this tragedy an "idiot"

Oh didn't see that. I wouldn't go that far.

[geekwarrior]

Faith or no faith...prayer or no prayer. There isn't a person on this board who should be criticizing any of the survivors what they did or didn't do.

QFT.


I wonder why the military trains over and over again. is it perhaps because when put in a situation like that, you panic? isnt that what they always say, the training just takes over?

heres a statistic from WWII: 25% of combat vets admitted to losing bladder control and 25% to losing control of bowels but only on an anonymous questionnaire.

my coworker served a yr in Iraq. He said the first time he was under fire, he was blind firing over his wall because he was scared senseless.

and when you take incoming fire as a soldier, are you taught to charge the shooter? I always thought it was find cover than shoot back, but I never went through boot camp, so maybe I'm wrong. even so, most people's instincts are to find cover.

[edweird]

yes I was wrong it was 93... thats what I get for shooting from the hip, but it got the point across didnt it.

As far as praying goes...I believe it was General MacArthur who said "there are no atheists in foxholes." It's just me, but I'd give General MacArthur's words some weight...but that's just me.

That statement is of much debate and does a great dishonor to my fellow atheist servicemen... but that is ok because it is also their blood that ensures everyones freedom to dishonor them.

One more thing about all of this. I have a problem when something like this goes down and we as the general public point fingers at law enforcement, administration, survivors, etc.

Quoted for truth... However, we are doing this exercise to remind us that we have more than the police who can act in extreme circumstances when the law allows. And it is ignorant as a society to restrict the lawful in order to protect the weak wills of the meek.

funny that you guys hate religion so much that out of a tragedy like this, the thing that you focus on is someone's faith.

and

Faith or no faith...prayer or no prayer. There isn't a person on this board who should be criticizing any of the survivors what they did or didn't do.

Lets get this absolutley straight before you quote tag me to deathI am not bashing the kids who made it though the ordeal, just the ones who did nothing to help and wish to seek fame from the press for seeking divine guidance instead of acting to cease the suffering.

We were commenting on the ignorant child who talking to the press about praying for a invisible blanket of protection. If we were attacking people of faith we wouldnt be heralding the heroic elderly jewish teacher who made a valiant effort to defend others. Yes I have the audacity to call a "survivor of this tragedy an "idiot" (as Beam put it) as he failed to overcome age old superstitions and made the choice to let more innocent people die due to his inaction. He is not at fault but he made the choice to be a bystander instead of doing something worthwile with his time. Sadly people are more intersted in clinging to their innocence as a bystander instead of helping out with the crisis at hand, but once the media is around they leap on every chance to tell their story about looking at the back of his eyelids hoping the magic man in the sky saves his innocent bystander buttocks.

Its easy to survive, it takes balls to be one of the few who make a diffrence. Just because you managed to get your way out of the situation does not grant you anything more than greif counseling.



sorry to be the jerk here but thems the brass tacks of the situation.

[beam]

We were commenting on the ignorant child who talking to the press about praying for a invisible blanket of protection. If we were attacking people of faith we wouldnt be heralding the heroic elderly jewish teacher who made a valiant effort to defend others. Yes I have the audacity to call a "survivor of this tragedy an "idiot" (as Beam put it) as he failed to overcome age old superstitions and made the choice to let more innocent people die due to his inaction. He is not at fault but he made the choice to be a bystander instead of doing something worthwile with his time. Sadly people are more intersted in clinging to their innocence as a bystander instead of helping out with the crisis at hand, but once the media is around they leap on every chance to tell their story about looking at the back of his eyelids hoping the magic man in the sky saves his innocent bystander buttocks.

Its easy to survive, it takes balls to be one of the few who make a diffrence. Just because you managed to get your way out of the situation does not grant you anything more than greif counseling.



sorry to be the jerk here but thems the brass tacks of the situation.

Wow. Just wow.

Do something worthwhile with his time? You sound like Matt Foley "Young man...what're you gonna do with your life?" "Gee, I don't know Matt...I'd like to live in a van down by the river...or GET MY HEAD SHOT OFF!"

Bystander? BYSTANDER? *deep breath* BYSTANDER!?!?!!? What the Everloving FREAK????? You call him a bystander? Wow. Innocent? Yes. But the students involved in this were victims...not bystanders.

It's easy to survive? What are you smoking Ed? Ask a holocaust survivor if it was easier to survive than to have taken a bullet to the head early on. I will give you that it is easier to survive than to get the gumption to unarmedly charge a shooting raving maniac.

Finally, the quote from MacArthur was not meant to offend atheists. It was meant to illustrate that when the bullets start flying and the bombs start breaking that people will pray. People who aren't even praying people will pray. That doesn't apply 100% across the board.

I appreciate your atheism and the fact that you are so committed to it. It will make you all the more effective of a Christian if you one day choose to follow him. Just like the apostle Paul. Number one Christian hater, to one of the most prolific authors in the Bible.

[Lohman446]

As I pointed out I have no intention of telling you how you should have reacted. Anyone who took any action, or inaction, and came out of this alive did what they needed to do. Others got incredibly unlucky. I don't care if I was armed and had Jacki Chan like moves, if this man had walked in and started firing, and I had been one of the first couple victims chances are training, and weaponry would have been moot points. This is not a situation where one is "ready" for this type of thing, its not like walking down the dark alley. It was a classroom, well perhaps we should be more prepared than we are in classrooms the fact of the matter is we are not.

I disagree with Phil to some degree on the lack of obligation to protect innocents around you. Your duty may not be as high as a police officers - and obviously your legal obligation is not - but there is some moral obligation for the "strong" to protect the "weak". No, those terms are not meant as degrading or uplifting. As I have stated before I do not want the entire population armed, some people are prepared for the responsibility and some are not.

It concerns me that in a building this size how few people did stand up and take action. It concerns me more that these are the college educated "leaders of tomorrow".

As I have said before there are very few things as truly unarmed and defenseless. Some people did take action, and their actions saved the lives of others.

[Ole Unka Phil]

I think I mentioned earlier how Utah has always allowed carry on college campuses? Think I did.... anyway... If not I meant too...

Recently that was upheld and they continue to do so. However, as a result of this recent tragic event and that recent court order that contines to allow carry, they have started offering free Concealed Weapons Permit classes to their Faculty, Staff and Students and I hear the response has been huge to register for it. Smart move really. Promoting safety because they know that people will be conceal carrying so why not contribute to the whole safety and training aspects of it? Bully for them.

[Ole Unka Phil]

It concerns me that in a building this size how few people did stand up and take action. It concerns me more that these are the college educated "leaders of tomorrow".

As I have said before there are very few things as truly unarmed and defenseless. Some people did take action, and their actions saved the lives of others.

Not that we know how many really tried... but I hear ya. This is the point of wondering if we have raised an entire generation (or two or three) that has the mindset that they are somehow protected by authorities or have the mindset that "the guberment" should take care of them. And, when something like this happens they just immediately think they can solve it with more Government... which never can be big enough to do it. They don't take matters into their own hands nor want too.

A victim finds himself in harms way, A hero places himself in harms way.

Another observation I heard is that, in this case, we need to rethink how we treat and identify people who may do something like this. I don't know the answer. But he was identified at several points but never "legally" identified. I think it was Bill Maure (never mind his other idiotic nonsense he often is prone too but this one hits home) that a common thread amongst a lot of these kinds of violent act out mass murderers.... can't get laid! He suggested we ditch Psyciatrics and get em a Prostitute..... Hey now... Sorry.. that was in bad taste but... heck... somewhat of a grain of truth there.

[geekwarrior]

that a common thread amongst a lot of these kinds of violent act out mass murderers.... can't get laid! He suggested we ditch Psyciatrics and get em a Prostitute..... Hey now... Sorry.. that was in bad taste but... heck... somewhat of a grain of truth there.

lol...actually, there was a story that he had hired a call girl the week before. there was an interview with the girl.

[Ole Unka Phil]

lol...actually, there was a story that he had hired a call girl the week before. there was an interview with the girl.

O really! Linky? I bet it didn't go well?