Official Deadlywind hAir trigger update

[Muzikman]

and your poor guy who invents something but can't afford to protect it is the way it used to be but isn't anymore. You can get protection for under $100.

I don't know where you got that number from. Let me tell you, no matter what, it's more expensive than $100 for a patent.

[Magaman]

magaman,

open your eyes: I'm talking about the invention as it relates to what PTP has a patent on.

and your poor guy who invents something but can't afford to protect it is the way it used to be but isn't anymore. You can get protection for under $100.

Besides, you're another one who doesn't understand IP; the guy in australia can get an australian patent issued; if he and the guy in texas both apply for international protection, THEN it comes down to priority date (who got there first).

If there were NO patents, it would always be the big bad guy with money winning every time.

You missed my point, I'm saying that DW didn't reinvent anything. It's not like they went down to PTP and stole the prints, they made there own version as did PTP...

I just hate it when people are blind to the fact that more than one person can invent something that is the same and just because someone got lucky enough to get there idea in the patent office first, it means that everyone else only re-invented the patented product...

I say open your eyes because I hate it when people quote Voltaire, but never look at life thru Voltaires eyes, they only quote him and try to look open eyed. People need to look at the "Real World", not Corporate America.

[Magaman]

It double posted... Computer Freeze...

[Fanatic]

here is an idea

i know this would be a long shot but hell froze over when tom quit anyway...so

is it possible to sell the hair trigger to PTP so it will be released anyway
i mean nicad can still do what he does best...er...assemble the frame for PTP
it would only be a PTP frame but 99percent hair
both parties would somehow benefit from it
it would still be bought out by mag owners worldwide

oh well...just my 2cents

[Muzikman]

here is an idea

i know this would be a long shot but hell froze over when tom quit anyway...so

is it possible to sell the hair trigger to PTP so it will be released anyway
i mean nicad can still do what he does best...er...assemble the frame for PTP
it would only be a PTP frame but 99percent hair
both parties would somehow benefit from it
it would still be bought out by mag owners worldwide

oh well...just my 2cents

Well, that would be a odd way for a licensing agreement. It comes down to money, PTP got a little, DW does not. Now....If DW would sell the frame for say, $1000 each, I am sure they could afford to produce the frame and pay PTP the fee's they require.

**The numbers are just pulled out of my head, I have no idea what PTP wants as a licensing fee, nor do I know that it costs DW to produce the frames.


I am just shocked that for the long running relationshsip AGD had with PTP that a better agreement could not be reached.

[spantol]

I am just shocked that for the long running relationshsip AGD had with PTP that a better agreement could not be reached.

That has me scratching my head, too. I don't think that we've heard anything from AGD on this subject for quite some time, though. I hate to suggest it, but maybe an agreement was reached, just one that didn't involve Deadlywind.

[Muzikman]

That has me scratching my head, too. I don't think that we've heard anything from AGD on this subject for quite some time, though. I hate to suggest it, but maybe an agreement was reached, just one that didn't involve Deadlywind.

Well, I do not know for sure, but I think AGD bailed on DW. I don't blame them, but I think an agreement would have been easier.

[Lohman446]

I think that you will find TKs relationship with PTP did pay off. They were looking into the hAIR trigger and I expect PTP at that point said something - it likely saved DW and AGD a lot of time getting down the details on soemthing that they may have not been able to produce.

[rabidchihauhau]

muzikman - nope, I do it all the time. $100 bucks (filing fee and postage). I know this because I have filed numerous, numerous, numerous applications over the past several years. Several of those applications have resulted in grants. If you want to spend some time at the PTO's website, you can figure it out for yourself.

Lohman - birdies tweeting in your ear?

[rabidchihauhau]

magaman,

I agree, it is possible for people to come up with the same idea independantly; what the heck does that have to do with Voltaire? (Who I read in college, btw. Quoting someone in a sig is usually done because the quote has something to do with the person, not necessarily what is contained in the body of any given message.)

However, given the context of - PTP is WRONG-BAD-NAUGHTY and DW is GREAT-WONDERFUL-TERRIFIC, I have no qualms about exaggerating a little from the other side of the fence.

This, however, was not a case of dual invention at different locations followed by a rush to the patent office, it was a case of one invention preceding another by a good many years, so I suppose that it would be most accurate to describe the situation as one of 'independent re-invention'.

The folks who talk about 'what about this trigger', 'what about this gun' (all of which supposedly came before the PTP trigger) don't understand that while there may be seeming similarity in the invention's performance, the engineering is totally different, the purpose of the application was not just a pneumatic trigger switch and that all of the supposed 'prior' art has been extensively reviewed at this point by many different people, all of whom dropped the 'prior art' claim because they discovered what the PTO knows; the PTP trigger is a new piece of engineering, achieves its design goals in a unique manner and was worthy of a patent grant because there WAS NO prior art. In fact, the application was carefully written so that it would not cover prior art.

If you want to figure out why - go read the application. Its publicly available. I can not, however, be held responsible for any lack of comprehension that might result.

[Muzikman]

muzikman - nope, I do it all the time. $100 bucks (filing fee and postage). I know this because I have filed numerous, numerous, numerous applications over the past several years. Several of those applications have resulted in grants. If you want to spend some time at the PTO's website, you can figure it out for yourself.

Lohman - birdies tweeting in your ear?

Show me where you can get a US Patent for $100. Even if you did EVERYTHING yourself, the filing fee alone is over $400.

[Automaggot68]

I have spoke with PTP specifically about the trigger for the mag & it is coming out in fact you will be able to buy it separate or get a micro with it on. The cocker will be first due to the fact that it was the first marker that they had tried it on. I started a thread a while back about it .

You know, I speak with Jay Fireblade on a Daily basis, and even considering his posts on the original hAir trigger thread, you are full of BS.

[rabidchihauhau]

Muzikman:

I did not say an issued patent. here's what I did say:

"I have filed numerous, numerous, numerous applications over the past several years."

and, originally:

"You can get protection for under $100"

I'll not reveal my secret - even though its publicly available at www.uspto.gov. I'll let you figure it out for yourself.

If you want to talk about getting a GRANT and the cost to see it through from application to granting, then even your 400 is too low an estimate: filing fees are based on the total number of claims as well as the number of independent claims and a few other factors as well (such as the kind of utility application, expedited, etc.) and you can expect, even when filing yourself, to pay several thousand dollars in application and publication fees, dollars for drawings, dollars for searching and, in the end, dollars for a patent attorney to clean up the mess you made yourself.

But that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about a low cost system that was put specifically in place for the 'poor' inventor.

[spantol]

I'm told you can file a provisional application for $80. I'm assuming this is what he's referring to.

[Muzikman]

Trust me, I understand the patent process, I currently have over $15K invested so far with no end in sight.

(No, they are not paintball patents)

Muzikman:

I did not say an issued patent. here's what I did say:

"I have filed numerous, numerous, numerous applications over the past several years."

and, originally:

"You can get protection for under $100"

I'll not reveal my secret - even though its publicly available at www.uspto.gov. I'll let you figure it out for yourself.

If you want to talk about getting a GRANT and the cost to see it through from application to granting, then even your 400 is too low an estimate: filing fees are based on the total number of claims as well as the number of independent claims and a few other factors as well (such as the kind of utility application, expedited, etc.) and you can expect, even when filing yourself, to pay several thousand dollars in application and publication fees, dollars for drawings, dollars for searching and, in the end, dollars for a patent attorney to clean up the mess you made yourself.

But that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about a low cost system that was put specifically in place for the 'poor' inventor.