** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

[sMaLlz]

im using an emag with an x-valve and it leaks out of the rear hole on the top of the xvalve and leaks terribly, but stops when i hold down the trigger. any help would be greatly appreciated.

[athomas]

im using an emag with an x-valve and it leaks out of the rear hole on the top of the xvalve and leaks terribly, but stops when i hold down the trigger. any help would be greatly appreciated.

That is usually an indication of a bad regulator piston oring. Part# 113. The oring may not be bad. It could just be a piece of dirt in the back of the valve. Clean out the velocity adjuster area and see if it helps.

[pinkanese]

I hope that some helpful folks still check this thread, anyway need some help with a lvl10 in my classic. Well I guess it just more of a few questions.

The smallest carrier I have is a 1.5, and i seems to work fine, should I be worried about not having any bigger ones to test or just count it as lucky?

Next, At first I had no shims and it stuck occasionally so i added 2 and now it doesn't stick, but it seems to skip when I try to dryfire a long string as fast as I can , is it just eh classic valve n being able to keep up, or should I play with shims some more?

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to read and tries to help .

[Lancer X]

I just purchased and installed a level 10 bolt on my Automag classic. When I gas it up, there is resistance behind the trigger but the marker will not fire until I turn up the pressure. About an 1/8th of a turn past where the marker will fire, the valve begins to leak out the back. I have tried several carriers and two and no shims. Any ideas?

Your regulator piston assembly is an older low pressure version. The higher pressure requirements of the level 10 bolt sometimes exceed the safety release pressure of the regulator piston assembly in the older units. You might get away with using the older unit if you make your system more efficient. Use the short gold spring. Use an 11" unported barrel or one that has minimal or very small porting. Keep your velocity down around 280fps or lower. This may get you by until you can get a new piston assembly.

I just bought a Lvl 10 kit to install in my Minimag. Will I also need to get a new reg piston assembly?

[athomas]

I hope that some helpful folks still check this thread, anyway need some help with a lvl10 in my classic. Well I guess it just more of a few questions.

The smallest carrier I have is a 1.5, and i seems to work fine, should I be worried about not having any bigger ones to test or just count it as lucky?

Next, At first I had no shims and it stuck occasionally so i added 2 and now it doesn't stick, but it seems to skip when I try to dryfire a long string as fast as I can , is it just eh classic valve n being able to keep up, or should I play with shims some more?

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to read and tries to help .

The sticking won't be helped by adding shims. That is why it happens when you dry fire. The classic valve is more than capable of keeping up and can outperform any user.

You need to get a couple of carrier sizes, because even if it works now, the next oring you use may not work. And, apparently the size you are using is not the correct one for the oring you are using. It sounds like you need to use the next larger carrier. you may want to try another oring. It may work better with the oring your have now. Or, use the shortest bolt spring and operate the one you have and it will probably be ok once the oring gets broken in.

[athomas]

I just bought a Lvl 10 kit to install in my Minimag. Will I also need to get a new reg piston assembly?

You may get lucky and it will work. However, it is often the case that it will eventually leak, even if it works at the start, especially if it is an older minimag.

Try it. Use the short bolt spring if it leaks out the back. This will still give you great level 10 performance and will buy time until you get a new piston assembly. Heck , it may work for you anyway.

[Lancer X]

You may get lucky and it will work. However, it is often the case that it will eventually leak, even if it works at the start, especially if it is an older minimag.

Try it. Use the short bolt spring if it leaks out the back. This will still give you great level 10 performance and will buy time until you get a new piston assembly. Heck , it may work for you anyway.

Is this the HP piston part you're referring to, athomas? Or do I need a whole HP piston "kit"?

[athomas]

Is this the HP piston part you're referring to, athomas? Or do I need a whole HP piston "kit"?

sorry I was late replying. I was away for a couple of days.

That is the correct piston assembly.

[dreadpirate]

Bolt sticking forward on RT pro, only on HPA?

I have had my RT pro for a few years now. It worked well in Connecticut, where I first used it, but then I moved to Michigan, and it never really worked right, until I moved to Illinois. The problem I had was that when firing fast strings, the bolt would stick forward, requiring me to reset it by pushing a cleaning rod down the barrel and push the bolt back. Using advice on this forum, I added/removed about every user adjustable part in the bolt and ULT, and was unable to get it resolved. The 'mag got put away in a closet, and I spent three years using my A-5, instead. Then, after moving to a new state, I decided to pull the 'mag out one last time to try and get it right. To my amazement, I went to the bench, got my air tank filled from their N2 cylinder, and the gun worked beautifully the rest of the day.

There are a few possible reasons I can think of for this that I'd like to bounce off everyone's brains, to try and make sure my gun -continues- to work properly:

A) In Michigan (Hellsurvivors, Pinckney), I used HPA from a large-capacity compressor system, which may have too much moisture/dirt in it, and causes the bolt not to reseat properly for some reason. Here in Illinois, the local field uses pre-bottled N2 only.

B) The various O-rings and seals have aged and either stiffened or swelled and now fit properly.

C) My preset crossfire tank was not flowing well enough to properly cycle everything during fast strings. But, now that it's 5 yrs old, the regulator spring has worn in a bit, and is allowing higher pressure output than was originally set. (seems counter-intuitive, since bolt return is accomplished by a spring, not air) Do crossfires flow enough for the RT pro?

D) The internal springs on the gun, either inside the level 10, or the bolt spring itself, have weakened, with similar effects to C, above.

Mostly, I would like to eliminate A above, since I'm planning on bringing the gun back to Michigan for this year's Global Conquest, and possibly, Monster Game. If it's possible that entrained dirt/moisture could cause my problem, are there air filters available that might help? Would attaching a regulator or a simple expansion chamber help reduce entrained dirt or moisture, by changing airflow direction repeatedly?

I don't recall exactly which shims/spacers, springs I have installed, though I know I returned it to the same settings as what it came from the factory with. In the past, I even replaced the ULT with a standard trigger, with no effect, though the 10 or 20 shots it fired when I sweet-spotted it, before it stuck, were a whole lot of fun, and alot faster than I can shoot with the ULT. (seems to tell me that the airflow from the tank is perfectly fine)

Another annoyance, which has plagued the gun for some time: it occasionally fires when I screw the tank into the ASA adaptor. Once again, this issue hasn't occured recently, but it has only been gassed up 4 or 5 times since I started using it again, so I do not have the warm fuzzies just yet.

Also, my trigger is not swinging as freely as used to, what is the best way to lube the trigger on a ULT? I honestly don't recall if things come flying out when the grip is removed.

[athomas]

... The problem I had was that when firing fast strings, the bolt would stick forward, requiring me to reset it by pushing a cleaning rod down the barrel and push the bolt back.


Another annoyance, which has plagued the gun for some time: it occasionally fires when I screw the tank into the ASA adaptor. Once again, this issue hasn't occured recently, but it has only been gassed up 4 or 5 times since I started using it again, so I do not have the warm fuzzies just yet.

Also, my trigger is not swinging as freely as used to, what is the best way to lube the trigger on a ULT? I honestly don't recall if things come flying out when the grip is removed.

Crossfires do flow enough.

Sticks are most likely a carrier that is too tight. Environmental conditions could affect the orings over time.

If the bolt is sticking, use a larger size carrier. Remove all shims when adjusting carrier sizes. The gun should function fine without any shims installed.

If you have a problem with the gun firing when you gas up hold the trigger when you attach the bottle.

The trigger should swing free. If it doesn't you need to find out why and fix it.

[dreadpirate]

Crossfires do flow enough.

Sticks are most likely a carrier that is too tight. Environmental conditions could affect the orings over time.

If the bolt is sticking, use a larger size carrier. Remove all shims when adjusting carrier sizes. The gun should function fine without any shims installed.

If you have a problem with the gun firing when you gas up hold the trigger when you attach the bottle.

The trigger should swing free. If it doesn't you need to find out why and fix it.

Agh, this is where I need to go study up on the gun design again. By shims, you mean shims behind the bolt, right? not the shims on the ULT?

By holding the trigger, do you mean, hold it out, so it doesn't swing back, or hold it in, as in, the firing position?

I suspect the trigger needs oiling... it was fine when I put the gun in sotrage, now it feels like there's extra friction when the gun is depressurized. I seemed to recall the trigger was really loose and would flop back and forth without air pressure. Now it sticks in place wherever I position it. Will standard paintgun oil work for this, or should I be looking for a certain type of grease?

[athomas]

Agh, this is where I need to go study up on the gun design again. By shims, you mean shims behind the bolt, right? not the shims on the ULT?

By holding the trigger, do you mean, hold it out, so it doesn't swing back, or hold it in, as in, the firing position?

I suspect the trigger needs oiling... it was fine when I put the gun in sotrage, now it feels like there's extra friction when the gun is depressurized. I seemed to recall the trigger was really loose and would flop back and forth without air pressure. Now it sticks in place wherever I position it. Will standard paintgun oil work for this, or should I be looking for a certain type of grease?

Use any light lubricant to oil the trigger.

The shims referred to are the level 10 shims in the powertube. They alter how far the bolt has to travel before it can vent. the amount of travel is so small it is neglegible anyway, but it can cause the vent hole to be too close to the oring resulting in leakage which in turn causes you to compensate by using a carrier that is too tight. A carrier that is too tight will cause bolt stick. That is why we remove the shims for tuning. The ULT shims may be a factor as well, but since the problem persisted even when you had the standard on-off assembly installed, I don't think the ULT is your problem.

By holding the trigger, I mean hold it tight as if you had just fired the gun. This shuts off the air from getting to the front chamber so the gun can't accidentally fire when you add air.

[Gotcha3]

Lvl 10 E-MAG, please advise...

Hi,
I am using an E-MAG with Lvl 10. The Lvl 10 works fine when pulling the trigger normally. However, when I have tried to walk the trigger--the bolt seems to move forward just a tad and then get stuck. I have then had to push the bolt back into position to be able to fire again. Can anyone help me?

[dreadpirate]

Hi,
I am using an E-MAG with Lvl 10. The Lvl 10 works fine when pulling the trigger normally. However, when I have tried to walk the trigger--the bolt seems to move forward just a tad and then get stuck. I have then had to push the bolt back into position to be able to fire again. Can anyone help me?

I'll try and answer your problem with my best understanding of mine with my RT ULE.

Like yours, my gun shoots fine on individual shots, but when I try to walk it, it stops and sticks, occasionally managing to reset itself slowly.

I think what is happening is that my Reloader B, which is usually set on slow to try and save paint, only feeds fast enough for the first 10 shots of the string, since the drive cone spring pretensions about 10 shots.

When I shoot normally, the bolt spring is completely compressed, and is strong enough to force the bolt back after the shot, against the excessive friction from the carrier o-ring. When a ball gets caught in the breach though, the anti-chop design prevents the bolt from traveling all the way forward, as it should, which does not compress the spring enough to provide the force required to overcome the carrier o-ring friction around the power tube.

The most likely cause of bolt stick according to AGD, then is an o-ring carrier that is too small. Another possibility is a too-weak bolt spring. The tuning instructions for the lvl 10 say to start with the medium sized bolt spring for initial tuning of the o-ring carrier, and then move to the longest bolt spring, unless velocity cannot be maintained, in which case, stick with the shorter bolt spring.

Also, as athomas was saying, remove all the carrier shims. The gun should work fine without them, they are just there for fine tuning.

I'm planning on testing this as soon as I can get back out on a field.

[athomas]

Hi,
I am using an E-MAG with Lvl 10. The Lvl 10 works fine when pulling the trigger normally. However, when I have tried to walk the trigger--the bolt seems to move forward just a tad and then get stuck. I have then had to push the bolt back into position to be able to fire again. Can anyone help me?

Sounds like bolt stick. Any time the bolt sticks forward, even with a weak bolt spring, the main problem is a carrier that is too tight. Remove all shims and install the next larger carrier oring. Always use the same white carrier oring when changing carriers.

Depending on how old your bolt spring is, you may need to change that too. The bolt spring is durable, but it is a consumable item that does need to be changed from time to time.