** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

[athomas]

I have a classic automag with a level 10 bolt that leaks no matter what I do. Leak stops when trigger is held down. I've changed all o-rings, used plenty of lube, removed all shims, and installed the smallest carrier with little effect. The leak persists, ranging from moderate to floodgate. What the hell is wrong with this thing?

The level 10 carriers (all of them) fit very tightly into the power tube and must be pushed down to the bottom with considerable force (even when soaking in lube), as if it's hanging up on the powertube's threading. However, the carrier o-rings show no visible signs of damage when removed, but who knows.

Any tips?

The carrier does fit tightly into the powertube. Your leaking sounds like it might be sear related. If your sear is worn, the bolt will sit too far forward. The vent hole will always be past the carrier oring. Make sure you have the rail bushing as well. This could also lead to continuous leaking.

[Looper]

The carrier does fit tightly into the powertube. Your leaking sounds like it might be sear related. If your sear is worn, the bolt will sit too far forward. The vent hole will always be past the carrier oring. Make sure you have the rail bushing as well. This could also lead to continuous leaking.

I'm having this exact same issue with one LX bolt but not another... I have tried all the standard stuff and even tried removing the bolt and holding the trigger while airing it up. No leak, reassemble with bolt and SNAP, the leak is back. Then I looked at the non function bolt and the working one and WOW the stem is longer...

Here is a photo for the record...


I'm guessing I've got my self an early LX Bolt here because of the seam at the front of the bolt. The strange thing is it was working fine until the other day while playing in freezing weather the thing just started leaking and would not stop. I have swapped bolts off another valve and leak goes away so that would rule out the sear... and now that I look at the bypass hole in the shaft it is back further than the working LX bolt... but the foamy looks to be in the right place up front...

Approximate distance to bypass hole from back edge of bolt
.2020 Leaky Lx
.3415 Working LX

Looks like I have a failed Level X Bolt
Any suggestions?

[Looper]

Think I found my answer at post 176 in this thread...

DarkPhoenix- If you're handy with tools and Loctite, take off the foamie, take a drift pin and tap out the bolt pin from the hole exposed when you take off the foamie. This will remove the bolt pin so you can put a dab of RED Loctite on it and press fit it back in. Be sure to fully clean off any dirt from the tip of the pin surface that is press fitted into the bolt with rubbing alochol. Use a q-tip to wipe off any Loctite that comes out from pressing it in. I suggest using a flat faced hammer on the end of the bolt pin with short, but firm taps. The end of the bolt pin that you'll be hitting with the hammer doesn't contact anything so it's not an issue to hit it with a hammer, so long as you tap it in straight and don't slip. Use calipers to measure from the tip of the bolt to the tip of the pin. It should go in to 2.010".

[ezcreation]

The carrier does fit tightly into the powertube. Your leaking sounds like it might be sear related. If your sear is worn, the bolt will sit too far forward. The vent hole will always be past the carrier oring. Make sure you have the rail bushing as well. This could also lead to continuous leaking.

What do you mean by rail bushing?

I have a continuous leak, I have checked my sear and it works fine, changed all oring and such. Have done the carrier/oil/shims drill but still leaking.

Have not measured the bolt but pretty sure it is the correct size since I have tried several.

[athomas]

What do you mean by rail bushing?

I have a continuous leak, I have checked my sear and it works fine, changed all oring and such. Have done the carrier/oil/shims drill but still leaking.

Have not measured the bolt but pretty sure it is the correct size since I have tried several.

The sear may work fine but if there is any wear on the tip where it catches the bolt, it could alter where the bolt is held in place. If the bolt sits too far forward, then it will leak. It doesn't take much.

The rail bushing fits in the rail where the field strip screw holds the valve in place. Without this bushing, the valve will have a tendency to sit too far back when aired up. This effect is the same as having the bolt too far forward and it will leak continuously.

[ezcreation]

The sear may work fine but if there is any wear on the tip where it catches the bolt, it could alter where the bolt is held in place. If the bolt sits too far forward, then it will leak. It doesn't take much.

The rail bushing fits in the rail where the field strip screw holds the valve in place. Without this bushing, the valve will have a tendency to sit too far back when aired up. This effect is the same as having the bolt too far forward and it will leak continuously.

The rail bushing is in place. I have tried another valve in and it shoots no problem, no leak. I do believe now that my valve is defective to be honest.

[gunangel]

hey guys i would like to request some spring help.

my mag shoots fine and at velocity but the force of the bolt seems a bit high and it seems very very thirsty.

i've been told two things. one switching to the red or silver spring will alleviate this problem but i'm not sure which. i was thinking the red would reset the bolt faster and would require the valve to be turned up which would make the mag thirstier, but the silver spring would return the bolt slower but use less air. and the second i was told that i would probably have to cut the spring, which i'm not sure how to do.

[secretweaponevan]

hey guys i would like to request some spring help.

my mag shoots fine and at velocity but the force of the bolt seems a bit high and it seems very very thirsty.

i've been told two things. one switching to the red or silver spring will alleviate this problem but i'm not sure which. i was thinking the red would reset the bolt faster and would require the valve to be turned up which would make the mag thirstier, but the silver spring would return the bolt slower but use less air. and the second i was told that i would probably have to cut the spring, which i'm not sure how to do.

Mags use more air when dry fired than with paint.
The bolt will have more force after it travels .25". Before it travels .25" it is gentle on paint.
As for reset time, we are probably talking about milliseconds here. It makes no difference when the valve can only (I use that word lightly) cycle at ~30 cycles per second.

Read the last paragraph here if you want to fine tune: http://automags.org/resource/level10/index.shtml

[gunangel]

thanks for the reply!

i was testing the bolt with my finger right up against the bolt and it's pushing it a far distance (to the other side of the breech) and fairly hard. i have tried the other springs but both won't fire. I assume this is because of the length so I was wondering what was the proper way to cut down in the spring?

i did totally forget about the back pressure caused by the paintball in the barrel in measuring air consumption, that makes me a bit happier

[secretweaponevan]

thanks for the reply!

i was testing the bolt with my finger right up against the bolt and it's pushing it a far distance (to the other side of the breech) and fairly hard. i have tried the other springs but both won't fire. I assume this is because of the length so I was wondering what was the proper way to cut down in the spring?

i did totally forget about the back pressure caused by the paintball in the barrel in measuring air consumption, that makes me a bit happier

A stronger spring requires that you turn up your velocity to counter the extra spring force.

I wouldn't cut down a spring.

[athomas]

thanks for the reply!

i was testing the bolt with my finger right up against the bolt and it's pushing it a far distance (to the other side of the breech) and fairly hard. i have tried the other springs but both won't fire. I assume this is because of the length so I was wondering what was the proper way to cut down in the spring?

i did totally forget about the back pressure caused by the paintball in the barrel in measuring air consumption, that makes me a bit happier

As mentioned by secretweaponevan, don't cut your spring just yet. The extra spring force does require extra chamber pressure, so you will have to increase your velocity setting to overcome the extra tension and get the gun back up to normal shooting velocity.

The red spring is stronger than the short gold one. The long grey spring is the stiffest but may not allow your gun to shoot properly in the range of operation you need. Experimentation will tel you that.

The longer springs are actually slower in cycle time than the shorter/lighter springs. Its the slower forward movement and the higher residual chamber pressure that slows the cycle down although its not really noticed for normal operation. Even electro guns that are properly tuned would be hard pressed to outshoot the capability of a level 10 mag with a stiff spring vs one that had a regular spring.

[Blacksnake]

kind of a noob level 10?

How do i read the carriers. what size is what?

got them all in a bag from agd and would like to know what the lines and dots actualy mean

[athomas]

kind of a noob level 10?

How do i read the carriers. what size is what?

got them all in a bag from agd and would like to know what the lines and dots actualy mean

No lines is the lowest number. Each line represents a number. A dot represents 0.5. Sizing goes from lowest to highest.

[Tweety]

well i put it all togather and put air to it and it just was makeing a loud click and the bolt was not moving
is it the spring,shimms,carrier
please help

[athomas]

well i put it all togather and put air to it and it just was makeing a loud click and the bolt was not moving
is it the spring,shimms,carrier
please help

What's your setup? What type of mag are you using?

Most likely it is bolt stick. Make sure you turned the velocity up after a level 10 installation. The valve uses a higher chamber pressure to operate the level 10 bolt at the same velocitiy as before. If it still sticks, then you are using a carrier size that is too small making the carrier oring too tight on the bolt stem.