** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

[The Last Conformist]

inconsistant and hard on paint

I spent 3 hrs at the field and could not get my lvl 10 working properly. First the 2 carrier worked, but i guess the oring "broke in" so now .5 is the largest carrier that wont leak.

Any way my setup right now is .5 carrier no shims smallest lvl 10 spring. The behaviour of my system is as follows.

1. If i add shims it leaks.

2. If i use the middle or longest spring i cant get it below 300 fps.(i get like 350 with longest and like 335 with medium)

3. It is very inconsistant in its current state. Velocity goes something like this.

278 286 290 215(not a typo) 284 291

My understanding is that this type of inconsistancy is usually caused by to small a carrier but anything above .5 leaks. And i have oiled the thing several times.

4. If a ball only goes half way in the breach the bolt hits and cracks the ball(2 bounce paint) then resets and the ball falls into the breach where the next trigger pull nicely distributes the paint evenly throughout the breach and barrel.

5. This is just odd. I was first testing with my dye stainless steal barrel but i noticed that when i rested my barrel on the cronograph that it started leaking. So i pushed up on the end of the barrel with my hand and it leaked, but stopped leaking when i stopped putting pressure on it. I switched to my j&j ceramic(larger bore than dye) and it stopped.

Help me please, i am very confused

BlackVCG: Here's what you need to do. Put in a new o-ring and test fit it to the bolt Start with the 1.5 carrier. If it feels like it has friction, but is pretty loose, then go down in size. If it's nice and tight to begin with, then leave it at that carrier/o-ring combo. Get a pair of side-cutters and cut off about 1/2 of a coil on your middle spring. Test it out and see if you can get it shooting right around 280fps.

LX is very inconsistant at first until the o-ring has broke in. Just cycle it as much as possible and then go the to chrono station. The leak when you push on the barrel means that the carrier size is one size too big. You can put double o-rings on your barrel, put some black electrical tape in the grooves and then put on your barrel o-rings to tighten up the barrel and keep it from moving around as much when you push on the barrel tip.

[Koosh]

Thanks alot Havoc!

My original problem was that it was pushing paint into the breech, and not firing it... so it was ventin too early.

My thought was that it was pushing against too hard a spring, so it would move faster, and vent later with shorter spring, so thats what I tried. It worked really good, but I still got some ball breaks, I am just unsure about where they came from. I won't be able to play for a while now (no job = no money! doh!) so I won't be able to test some new Ideas...

[Mike Meeks]

Only two issues during the install of my level 10.

A. The foamie shot out of the bolt almost immidiately.

B. The bolt did not fit inside my JJ Ceramic barrel.

Neither are that big of a deal in my opinion. Barrel thing is kind of annoying but I had planned on getting a new barrel anyway.

More of an FYI than a request for help.

[ogre55]

Mike:

You may want to run a search on the thread, but I beleive there is at least one other person who reported problems with the Level 10/JJ Ceramic Barrel combo.

Ogre

[Severe]

Mike,

I was having the exact same problem with my J&J 12". The small amount of play in the barrel was enough to cause my gun not to fire. However, I was using the middle spring at that time. I went to the shortest spring and it solved that problem!

If you're still getting some barrel stick, try lapping the breech on the barrel a little. Or even check the barrel 0-rings.

Hope this helps.

[G-force]

Problem with Velocity Adjustment and Tourney lock

I put the level 10 in my automag classic.....i have the smallest spring that comes with the kit, 2 shims and the #1.5 carrier, i got it to work fine but, i have to turn in my velocity screw in the back way up and it is now too far in for my tourney lock on the back...I cant get the tourney lock on any threads of the velocity adjustemt...What can i do? is there a longer adjustment screw you guys sell or can i mill the back of the cylinder itself a few thousand so i can get the tourney lock to catch the threads?? Need to know in a hurry if at all possible...thanks alot

[dugger]

Why Upgrade?

i hear people complain about sex all the time too. that doesnt mean it isnt worth the occasional problem (ie dealing with the gf).

i had issues with this at first like many others but they have been resolved. my advice to you is play with your mag for a while. if you chop balls upgrade the bolt. if not, leave it alone. before i put in a two finger trigger i chopped > 1/1000, afterwards i had issues due to short stroking.

my gf thinks i care more about my mag than i do her?!? what do you think?

mag
o-ring kit/oil $$
fires everytime i finger the trigger
doesnt get handled by other guys
ugly green AA barrel

gf
going out $$$$$$
gets @#$king "headaches"
goes to random house
parties
has hottie roommates

ok...so maybe its close.

-dugger

[DonkeyKev]

i just got a level 10 for my minimag yesterday. i set it up exactly how the instructions said on the website, and it worked fine. then today when i went to shoot my gun again, it wouldn't shoot at all. i turned up the velocity and tried all three mainsprings but nothing worked. please help me fast!!

[ogre55]

Originally posted by DonkeyKev
i just got a level 10 for my minimag yesterday. i set it up exactly how the instructions said on the website, and it worked fine. then today when i went to shoot my gun again, it wouldn't shoot at all. i turned up the velocity and tried all three mainsprings but nothing worked. please help me fast!!

I had the same problem. Try changing your carrier to a looser one. Find the loosest carrier that you have, that will not cause a carrier leak down the barrel. Also, as you switch carriers make sure to keep using the same o-ring with the carrier.

Ogre

[DonkeyKev]

i already tried a different carrier but it leaked. i think i used a dif o-ring on the second carrier though. i also tried replacing every part in the lvl 10, including the mainsprings, but nothing.

[Havoc_online]

dugger - why upgrade?
If you don't have chopping problems, that's great, I didnt either, infact a lot of ppl I've talked to didnt see the need to upgraded because they never chopped. But then some ppl change thier because...

... everyone wants an accurate marker. When it comes to accuracy the things that matter most are the barrel, paint/barrel match/ consistency, and recoil(reciprocating mass) which matter under rapid fire.

Pretty much all high-end markers are capable of being equally consistent and of course the barrel/paint doesnt apply between markers much since you can get the same barrel for most markers and obviously use the same paint. So what does it all boil down to? Recoil. The level 10 bolt give the marker less recoil(since there is less mass moving when the marker is fired) than any other marker. So, in theory, the level 10 mag is capable of being the most accurate marker(not including the factor of a persons preference).

DonkeyKev
try a higher input pressure. what are you currently running?

[Gijim]

Look at your barrel

I couldn't get my mag to shoot with level 10 until I took the barrel off, then it fired fine. So I took the valve out put the barrel back on and found out the barrel was slightly offline from the body. At first I assumed it was the barrel but it was a problem on each barrel, with more examination I found out it was the barrel lock pin that was sticking up too high and causing the barrels to be off center. The body rail I got from smartparts wasn't drilled properly and the lock pin didn't seat right in the rail. So watch out the pin could be the problem, if it shoots fine without the barrel then you know its the barrel or the pin that holds it. That was my problem hope this helps someone.

[Tankdriver]

My fickle level 10

To start off, I've read this whole thread a couple of times trying to figure out my problem, so essentially done my research on this topic trying to troubleshoot the problem.

I got my level ten two weeks ago, as per the instructions, I put in the 2.0 carrier, longest spring, 2 shims. Turned up the velocity until it fired consisently and a small leak developed down the barrel(~100 dryfires). At this point I switched over to the 1.5 carrier, with the same o-ring, leak stopped, the gun worked. I don't have a chrono but I was satisfied with the being able to get it to fire consistently under rapid fire and put my gun away.

A week later, I decide to install the new Palmer sideline reg that I got. I put it on, wouldn't fire, so I turned up my Stab until it did. Fired about twenty shots, then it stopped firing no matter how high I turned up the velocity on my Stab. At first, I thought their was too much friction preventing the gun from firing, so I switch to the middle spring. Still didn't work. Switched to the 2.0 carrier. Still didn't work. Then with the shortest spring it would fire halfway.

It occurs to me that I might be out of CO2, but my 20oz still feels pretty full. And having read previous posts in this thread about how the gun stops firing when there's 800-900 PSI left in the tank(BLACKVCG can you confirm this?)

Anycase, I go over the Glenn Palmers website and I dig up this info from one of his FAQs

amount of liquid CO2 in a 20oz tank pressure

21 oz 1150 psi+
20 oz 950 psi
19 oz 875 psi
17 oz 825 psi
15 oz 815 psi
12 oz 810 psi
6 oz 805 psi
2 oz 800 psi

Here's my hypothesis-

a) IF the above information is correct(no reason why it shouldn't be, coming from Glenn himself the Co2 expert)
b) AND If the level 10 does indeed stop working at around 800-900 psi left from the air source

THEN following the above conditions

The level 10 will not work with a Co2 air source, given that output PSI drops below 850 somewhere between 19-17 oz of CO2 left in the tank! So basically, with a 20 oz Co2 tank, I can only get 2-3 ozs of shots with it before the output pressure drops into the questionable range of 800-900 PSI where LX isn't going to operate with the middle or the longest spring?

I am going to the store to get my 20 oz CO2 tank weighed this afternoon to see how much CO2 is left and to see whether my hypothesis is correct. I am reasonably sure that this is why I can't get my level 10 to work.

Help is sincerely appreciated, especially from Havoc and Black.

Here's the link from which I got the info-

http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/FAQ/stabfaq.htm

[BlackVCG]

It sounds as though you're low on air. Go ahead and get your tank filled and see what happens. You might run into some problems running the stabalizer with Co2 and LX. Since that's a double regulated system and the output of the Co2 tank fluctuates with temperature, then you might experience certain times where it doesn't fire consistantly or at all. Test it out and see how it does, but if you experience problems with not being able to get the velocity you want, not firing or something of that sort, then try switching to the shortest spring or the cut middle spring.

[Tankdriver]

BlackVCG,

Thanks for the fast response, but my question wasn't answered.

The level 10 will not work with a Co2 air source, given that output PSI drops below 850 somewhere between 19-17 oz of CO2 left in the tank! So looking at that table above, with a full 20 oz Co2 tank, I can only get 2-3 ozs of worth of shots with it before the output pressure drops into the questionable range of 800-900 PSI where LX isn't going to operate with the middle or the longest spring?


"Since that's a double regulated system and the output of the Co2 tank fluctuates with temperature, then you might experience certain times where it doesn't fire consistantly or at all. "


I don't see why I should have any more problems using a secondary regulator than another that is using a nitro setup. Using a Stab on an automag makes it into a dual regulated system, same as anyone else that is using regulated nitro airsource(assuming that most nitro tanks have a built in reg) therefore reducing variations in input pressure. Isn't that the purpose behind having a regulated airsource? I don't really understand what you said about temperature fluctuations on Co2, isn't the regulation ratio from the secondary regulator supposed to take care of that? 50:1 change in PSI, or whatever.



Co2 tank pressure(very unstable, affected by outside temperature, liquid phase etc) -> Palm Stab, regulates it down to whatever I set it to -> the automag valve with LX, which I'm assume operates at 800-900 PSI when using the middle or the longest spring.

Following the above statement, if I want to use Co2 with LX, then I am limited to using the shortest spring in order for the marker to fire consisently(taking into consideration the outside temperature, and how much co2 is left in the tank), correct?

Sorry if these are dumb questions to anyone, I am just trying to learn about my automag and how to get the LX to operate with co2.