pneumatic frame

[master_alexander]

what most people don't understand is that people want to make new threads with new info, the old threads are useless to what you're probably going to do.other people have questions but their past searches did not awnser (me)

[the electrician]

well the part #S should help. they are clippard parts.

I'll tell you this. you want to use a horizontal cylinder. you want it to push on the sear where the trigger rod clevis attached to the sear.

I originally used a longer ram to pull the front of the sear down. but I noticed this caused accelerated wear on the bolt. the wear will start to make it harder and harder for the ram to operate the sear.
the smaller the ram stroke the better. as short as you can get away with. better response time and less air wasted.

bore size, I wouldn't go smaller than 5/16". no need to go larger than 3/8". you can figure a stock classic valve will need about 80 psi with a 5/16" bore ram. the MPA3 is a 3/8 bore and works really well. it is small and can generate plenty of power to operate any set-up.


the palmer 4-way will be really light and short for sure. if you can squeeze it in there, it should work really well.

the palmer rock reg is the only one I've tried that would give a consistent output when the input was 800+.

none of the other lpr's could deal with the high input pressure. they spiked and had real bad creep.

hope that helped a little.

[saml604]

What I was thinking of doing for the lpr, is threading another hole on the front of the very asa, and then the lpr could screw in there, and then maybe cut a notch in the rail to run a hose down into the trigger frame. That would keep everything pretty conceled and safe.

[the electrician]

yup. that's exactly what I did. just do the tapping on a drill press to make sure it's straight and the regwill be parallel to the barrel. otherwise it will look like crap. and take your time on the mill and do several passes, taking only a few thousandths at a time, to make the slot in the rail. otherwise the bit will want to take too much of the soft aluminum and snap.

if you look at the pics I posted, you can just see the palmer rock reg tapped into the front of the ASA.

[dager]

taping into the fron of the ASA is probaly the easiest way. the other ways we mouted the LPR is to one side of the ASA and ran the LP hose up the drop fowards and into the bottom of the grip frame.

My choice was drill out the vert ASA verticaly (remove the pin that would normaly depress the valve) and tap for 1/8NPT and thread in the LP reg verticaly. run the input from your tank to one side of the ASA and come out the other side to the Valve. Then run the LP hose up with the output line toward the back of the gun and have it drop in frame along the line. You can see the setup in the pic:



I could have ran the hoses into the opposite sides of the vert ASA (which would have made more sense) but I wasnt using Macro line then and had to use the Steel braded we had on hand.

-Duff

[saml604]

Here is the design most people have been thinking of doing.

First, there is an lpr threaded into the front of the vert asa. Then a hose runs through a slot cut in the rail into the grip frame. This goes into a 3-way valve, mounted in the frame, near the bottom of the trigger. There is a small rod coming out of the valve, which is what the trigger presses on, with a spring placed on the rod to push it pack after being fired. When the rod is pushed in, it allows the air to flow from the lpr. Then where the trigger rod used to be, you place a small ram that will push the piece coming down from the sear.

Firing sequence:
When the gun is aired up, the 3-way valve will be closed, so there is no pressure on the ram, just as in a normal mag. When the trigger is pushed in, it pushes on the rod, opening the 3-way valve. This sends air into the ram chamber, pushing it forward, and pushing the sear, just like the trigger rod in a normal mag would. If you hold the trigger down, then it keeps the valve open, which pushes on the ram, pushing on the sear, just like a normal mag. Then when the trigger is released, the spring pushes the pin back out on the three way, closing the valve to the ram. The third port is now open as an exaust valve to let the pressure off the ram, alowing the marker to recock.

What I really want to do is fit this into and intelliframe. To fit nicely, both the ram and the valve would have to be under half an inch in diameter. The ram would need to be shorter than an inch and a half, and the 3-way would need to be shorter than 2 inches. The ram would also need a stroke length of about an eigth of an inch. I would just drill 2 wholes through the back of the frame the same diameter as the three way and the ram, and somehow mount them in. The intellifeed mounting pieces would probably need to be cut out too.

The SMAV-3 looks like a good 3-way to use, but I'm not sure what ram to use. Also, any tips for mounting these pieces?

Here is a diagram I did in paint:

[saml604]

jamescell- have you tested out that palmer quickswitch yet? also, what ram are you using?

I found that the SMAV-3 has an activation force of 20oz, which is pretty heavy. I believe the ULT is only about 15oz.

[jamescell]

I don't see what you would gain by using the smav-3. My testing has come to a halt due to a broken power tip I did manage however to get the quick switch installed, the spring force required to reset it is more than I would have ever expected. It is better than the ult though for sure, I would guess the force required is 5oz.

[jamescell]

Oh yeah your other question. Every other part involved in this project has been custom made by me. At first I was going to use a pre-made ram, but I soon relized that it could not be used for this application. I did however manage to make a ram that fits horizontally . The problem is this is when I relized the power tube tip had broken prior to any modification I had made to the marker, therefore I have no idea as to the usefulness of this mod.

Dager, how well would you say your pneumags work?

[saml604]

5oz is pretty good. The quick switch looks like the 3-way for the job, but the ram could be tougher. I will have to think about making my own.

[splat15k]

I was wondering how you would drill a straight hole in the frame for the three way...the drill is just way too big.

[saml604]

Here is a drawing of what I think the perfect ram would look like

[saml604]

In my time while AO has been down, I came up with another design:

Where the 3way port with the hose going to the ram is, you split that hose into 2, with the other leading to another very small ram below the 3way. The rod on this ram is attached to the 3-way rod. So when the trigger is pushed, it opens the valve to a ram to push the sear, and to another to push the trigger back. With this design, the trigger would push back immediately.

The only problem I see with this however is that when the valve opens to the ram pushing the 3way rod back, the valve closes and the exhaust port opens as soon as or just before the piston in the ram would hit the other side of it's chamber, so there is very little or no pressure at all on the piston. The piston might have enough momentum that it would have the possibility of it bouncing off the wall and going back and forth, so once you pulled the trigger, you wouldn't be able to stop it and it would keep firing till your ran out of air. Maybe though, when the piston hit the other wall, there would still be some extra pressure in the tubing and the chamber, making it stop nicely. It is possible that you would have to put a spring inside the small ram, or some other shock absorbing thing, to stop it from bouncing back, which would sort of defeat the purpose of having the second ram. Maybe you could put a second lpr inside the grip to take the pressure down that was going to a second ram, but that would be pretty ridiculous. With a system this complicated, I have a feeling you would get some lag, and it would not be all that reliable. But it sure would be cool

If you're confused, heres a diagram:

[RRfireblade]

I guess you guys are starting to see that a typical cocker 3way won't get you anywhere near where you want to be for pull weight or length.

It 'sounds' like a simple mod, which doing like that actually is fiarly simple, but a true electro trigger pull is WAY shorter and light than most people realize till they try and duplicate it themselves.

Beyond any detailed specifics on designs, I will try and answer questions that may save you all some time in the long run if this is the design you'd like to try.

If anyone would like me too.

If not, no biggie either...don't mind me.

[saml604]

Any help is greatly appreciated