Is increased ROF good or bad for the sport?

[paintballfiend]

This is the part of you statement that I was taking issue with. We both know that if you can overcome your fear of something, then you are on the road to mastery of it. Saying it and doing it are two different things. I have seen 11 yo take hits that would make me squint, and not say a word, and I have seen 17 yo guys cry over the slightest hits. If you dont take into consideration another persons fear, then you are a part of the problem, not the solution. Now, that does not mean that you coddle them, but it does mean that you offer a reasonable amount of encouragement. I am not talking hand holding here. There is a line, and it is different in each case, as to what is "reasonable".

[gus13]

I know this topic has been done before...and possibly to death..

QFT! cuz it always turns into an ROF debate (see all previous posts in thread! ).

I don't know, I admit there is nothing that can be done about the trend towards higher ROF...but after today it made me wonder if the higher ROF isn't pushing the younger generation and new players away. It might be more interesting for the teens already involved, but so far I'ev seen it as a negative with the younger kids that would fuel the future of the sport.
Any thoughts?

It's a double edged sword, some like the high ROF some don't. The joy of the sport though is the fact that there are so many different styles, from speed/airball, to woods/scenario and several different classes in between (semi,ramping, stock) that as a "veteran player" you could easily talk to the Newer players and see exactly what it is they expect from this sport. if they don't honestly know, then encourage them to try other areas. ie. if they are trying speedball for thier first time playing but were thinking it would be slower and more "milsim" let them know about some of the scenario/woodsball events that are coming up in the area and encourage them to show up to that, maybe it would fit their style.
the fact is people who claim that woodsball is the only "real" paintball game are wrong as people who claim,"if you don't ramp then you prolly aren't worth playing" (or whatever)

I don't think we must to accomidate the fear of new players. All you should do is tell them to get over it or go home.

its not accomodating thier fears its helping them face it, without actually shoving it [I]in[/] their face. thats like telling a new driver that if their not doing 120 m.p.h.around hairpin corners they shouldn't be behind the wheel. its just silly.(bad analogy but its the first one that came to mind )

Ramping is still here to stay, and I wont handicap myself.. and I wouldnt reccomend anyone else do that because it leads to complaints.

I have met a few people who; when at a ramping tourney, won't ramp because it limits their normal ROF. Generally that is because those people actually took the time to learn how to shoot their marker and played in enough semi-only games that they learned how to trigger it better w/out any assistance.

I'll keep my ramping, and if you dont take it out there against me you will be handicapped -- End of story. But you can still feel good because you are doing all the work yourself

ummmm sure, I actually wiill feel better cuz I am doing all the work myself, but I don't think I'd be all that handicapped anyway....sorry to bust your little bubble there boss, but after playing enough people with that exact same attitude I have learned that its not a handicap in the least. If anything its an aid because it forces you to play smarter and find better angles than rely entirely on putting massive amounts of paint in the air.

[RobOpel]

I'll keep my ramping, and if you dont take it out there against me you will be handicapped -- End of story. But you can still feel good because you are doing all the work yourself [/QUOTE]


I realize this has been said earlier, but with my g7 and pneumag, 15 bps ramping would put me at a disadvantage. A time or two, I've had an old mag guy ask me if Ive modified an autoresponse frame outrageously (my pneumag uses an angel 90* frame), and most people don't believe that its not electro and I'm not using ramping...I had a ref tell me my solenoid was broken one time when I was tuning it. Back to the point though, while just shooting at the chrono, I can get my G7 to hit 20 (the rof thing in the opto board told me so) with no bounce and in semi. While I'm on the field, 16 is pretty easily achievable, even while on the run. My point here is that ramping is not 'necessary' as so many people seem to think it is. I feel like people who use ramping and have a trigger set up that would allow them to fire fast in semi and don't admit that they are just too lazy to learn to pull fast are liars.
That being said, I have played several games with ramping guns and found that I was less concerned with playing well and certainly didn't realize how much paint I was actually using.

Back to the point of how all of this effects new players...I have played a bunch of games with kids shooting rental guns and kids shooting ions with the same amount of firepower I have. The end result is pretty much always the same: First, in the staging area people are visibly nervous, occasionally asking the 'hey man, is that an angel? Don't those things shoot like 30 bps?' to which I respond 'Yes, and no, I can't pull that fast' The second part of this, is when I play with people who are obviously less experienced than I am, I I do my best to one ball or 'bunker tag' them...usually on a run through. This is how I keep these less competitive games interesting, I play a lot like I do when I play against more experienced people, but just make sure I keep my head about me so I don't bunker a 7 year old kid or something like that. At the end of the day, I'm able to make it an exciting game for me, but more importantly I'm also able to make things fun for the first timers.

Rob

[SGranier]

My PGP and Me

My quick two cents. There's nothing better than when I'm at a field with my PGP.

When you walk to the chrono station with a PGP you'll get the strangest questions and looks from a large majority of the players, and personally I look a bit ridiculous being a 6' 195 lbs guy holding this little tiny pump pistol in my hand.

Sure you spend some time behind bunkers as the ions rip paint at you, but there's nothing like the feeling on picking someone off with a PGP at 20-30 yards... or charging a bunker knowing you've got one shot.

Best ever is at larger fields when you get to... around and sneak behind the opposing team.

Sure the ROF is going up, and personally I have no idea why I built my intelli-warp mag when all I shoot is 3-4 bps anyway.

As others have said, for the most part, it's who's pulling the trigger that counts.

And if you never have gone into a game before with a pump, never the less a SC marker. Give it a try some time. I've never been more acrobatic, daring, and adventurous... nor tiny for that matter!

[/ShamelessPumpStockClassPromotion][/rant]

[Tao]

Increased rate of fire in the bush isn't so bad since trees and shrubs catch alot of it. Of course there are always open sections. However I think most people are better off trying to aim through the less dense parts of the push rather than just trying to hammer one through.

[ThePixelGuru]

Increased ROF is great. Everyone hoses a ton of paint, more of it gets sold, and prices drop. Then I can buy myself a bag of 500 for like $10 and play all day. Plus I look like a badass when I drop someone with a ramping marker with a double-tap from my Minimag.

So keep shooting, guys. The faster you shoot the cheaper my paint gets.

[Cleric]

rof at fields should be ~15bps as tourney rules unless its a special event.

[ghostdog2019]

At my local field and all fields alike it seems like your always gonna get some punk kids with there sponsor or daddy's money shooting some enormous amount of paint from a high end electro. To help the noobies and young kids I just team with the noobs to even the playing field. My emag set at 15bps pure semi seems to work against all competitors. Plus I even put in it manual mode sometimes just for fun. You would be suprised how well me being 6'6" and 270 can move and bunker someone. Plus when teaming with new players they tend to look up to a veterans leadership and also seem to want to learn more and seem to listen better to position commands better then your average punk kid shooting his mouth off while his board does all his shooting. As is stands right now people are gonna have guns that are going to ramp and have breakout modes (hate this one wasn't paying attention to the whistle and did not get a good jump and got tagged about 13 times). It is really up to us veterans to take a stand for the youth and keep the sport alive.

-Mike Brothman

[Coralis]

rof at fields should be ~15bps as tourney rules unless its a special event.

actually i was thinking around 10 bps is more like it for rec ball

[cdc120602]

Okay so I don't even know what ramping is nor do I care. I consider it a challenge to nail as many E-markered young bucks as I can. If I get taken out, no big deal. I started the game outgunned. I always get at least one, though. It only takes one little paintball. I used to play and win with my little Talon when everyone else had their semis. It's all about timing and aim. I can see it being intimidating for kids just starting up. I can definitely see where it would be a good idea for fields to start up a set time or area for newcomers with rentals or strictly finger powered mechs. It's not bad for the sport as long as there are people out there who can show the new guys that ROF isn't everything.

[jenarelJAM]

Didn't read the whole thread, just enough to see many of the posts were about rof and ramping, and not particularly relating to the original post, which asked about the impacts of rof on new players.

In my experience, new players are nervous about the sport because a) they don't want to get shot, and b) they have no idea how to play, and know it.

Coming out to a field with nothing but a rental gun and a friend who is telling you "it'll be fun, lets go!" while watching teams practice on the field 20 feet away is probably somewhat agonizing for new players. But contrary to public opinion, I'm not so sure it's the rate of fire that makes them nervous. I know that the rof is probably the first thing they notice, but I think that underneath, they are scared of the "pros." Rate of Fire, to the inexperienced player, is probably indicative of skill, and new players are probably afraid of being outclasses when the penalty for failure is a sharp pain to a random extremity.

From my personal experience, even when I play pump, I usually feel like I don't quite fit in with the rental players because I do wear a jersey and paintball pants, (pants for the padding, and jersey because I have to wear something... and I already have it) and usually go out of my way to try to encourage them. When I went to a private party for one of my friends' birthday, most of his friends had never played before, and I definitely sensed that they were, if not afraid, wary of my on the field, even though I played pump.

[Cleric]

i've been playing for 3 years now...only play speedball pickup for fun, and im more afraid of a noob firing 25bps then a pro firing 15

[Cleric]

timing+aiming+rof > timing+aiming

[Cleric]

also i dont think having an exact limit for every gun is a good idea...people always want to make their stuff better just like cars, nothing would be as unique or cool if it was identical in performance to another

[Paintchucker]

Didn't we have this same conversation before? About a decade ago when Angels started pushing out cockers and mags from the tourney arena ??? Or was it that other time before that, when semiauto guns started pushing out pumps, and fields were starting to allow both on Saturdays, instead of just having open day on Sunday...

I guess good or bad would be relative terms. The advance in BPS hasn't killed PB yet...


As far as a given BPS limit... It seems to me that a field owner should do that. Up to a certain point a higher BPS allows the players to buy more paint, but if it is intimidating "too many" players, then it just doesn't make good business sense... Fewer players shooting more paint doesn't add up for the lost total number of players.