byop or fpo

[flying Dutchman]

Okay folks, here's a topic to mull over. As a player would you prefer a field that is bring your own paint or field paint only.

This is the tricky part. Tell me why. Now the one answer that is out of bounds is because it's cheaper. The cost for a day of play is based not just on paint price but the players usage and waste.

Remember I'm a field owner. We sell All Star, Chronic, and Evil at 3 cents per. ($60 a case)

The problem with the cheap paint is its quality. It can be very hard, or the diameter isn't constant so you get wild velocity changes. Which is fine for the shooter, but his targets are going to get whacked.

Is the demand for BYOP a sign the industry is trying to push players to spend more than they can afford?

Just throwing this out for thought and picking your brains to help me make my field a better place for the players. Thanks for your help!

Dutch.

[drg]

Not sure why you would rule out cost, since that's the #1 reason. I get my own quality paint for under $40 a case and few FPO fields even come close. Some do though.

The biggest reason beyond that for me is quality. The main FPO field around here does a terrible job of storing paint and it is often not very good. Other BYO fields that supply their own paint often are the same. Couple that with paying more and you are paying more for less.

[dstud2000]

My problem with FPO is quality. Quite often the paint is either dimpled or out of round, and it is costing me $60 a case. Plus most in my area only offer one choice of paint. Your field I would not mind the FPO becuase you offer atleast 3 choices, though they are the same price, tiered pricing would make it even more attractive for me. The reason tiered pricing would be attractive to me is when I have the extra money to spend, I will buy the top grade paint, but sometimes I am on a little tighter budget so it is nice to have an alternate option in price.

1.Quality and freshness affect how I feel about FPO and BYOP fields.

2.tiered pricing, if you have alternate choice of paint at even just 2 different prices, say regular at $50 and premium at $60 will cause me to choose one FPO field over another that only has one choice of paint.

[93civiccpe]

Here's my take on it... we have a local field that has 14 of the best fields in the area. Most believe it to be one of the top 2 fields in the state. The problem is that it is field paint only, and that their prices are SUPPOSED to be $45 for white box, $55 for mid-grade, and $65 for tournament grade. Everytime I've been, all they've had was crappy dimpled stinger, and they were selling it for $65. It is the only choice and it is at the maximum cost. That really puts a dent into a fun day of play.

On the other hand, the other local field has a store associated with it. There you can get good paint at between $30-40, that is round, not dimpled, and not brittle. The problem with their field is that it is under construction and they don't have very much room to play. Due to that, I find myself buying paint at this store, then driving over an hour to go to a field that is BYOP. I would not mind if a store charged me $5-$7 per each case I brought with me. That is understandable.. I know they make most of their money off of paint, so if you have to pay to bring your own then fine. The problem I have is whey they require you to use their paint, and it is severely overpriced and crappy paint.

[IDriveBug]

From a money perspective you are asking whether we would rather spend 20 to get on the field with your paint or 35 to get on the field with our own paint.

Fortunately my local field has pretty much always had at least 2 fair to good quality field paint options as for price, when paint went from 2500 in a case to 2000 in a case, they didnt change one penny.... Like that wasnt the idea of dropping case quantity... but prices have never been way out of the ballpark.

As far as quality goes, paint i have bought there has pretty much always been in good shape and most of the time a good name brand. My mag is not picky, and it doesnt shoot 29BPS so paint rarely turns into an issue with me. Though I do come from the school of thought that every so often a paintball is going to break in the gun, most of it will shoot out after a few shots therefore until it starts breaking paint one after another its not a real problem for me...

Aside from that, they have both FPO and BYOP days so reguardless of which principle you stand for, you have a day to play.

Ultimately I would rather play on a FPO day because I dont shoot enough less expensive paint in a day to cover the difference in field admission. If field admission was the same, for byop or fpo then my answer might be different. Now if I could get them to let me use the field paint circa 1998 that i have and never used...

[cougar20th]

Im becoming more of a fan of field paint only.

The main reason for this is at a recent byop senario I was shot with some sort of paint that did two things I didnt like. 1) etched into my new lense destroying them. 2) caused me to break out in a rash where i was shot and got paint on skin.

If it was Fpo I would at least know what I was shot with. Ive never until that day had any problems with good paint.

Another reason is that I already carry alot to the field. Ive forgotten paint on several occasions. Its easier if I dont have to deal with remembering paint.

[cerrik]

I have to say that there are 2 reasons, that I like BYOP vs. FPO.

1) Unfortunatly, it is cheaper. I rarely ever use more than half a case for a day of play. I usually start off by breaking open one bag to fill everything and I usually end up having to crack into that second bag. By the end of the day, I'm filling other ppls pods with my left over pods and that open bag. It's normally no more than about 200-300 leftover balls but I'm not gonna take home an open bag that has been sitting open all day in the elements. That still leaves the other 1000 unopened rounds. I take them home, store them for a week or two and I can go play again with mostly fresh paint.

2) The quality of FPO at the field I play at mostly is not so good. The field office where the paint is stored has no A/C, it's usually really humid; more so as the day progresses and the brand is not the best, Stinger. These factors as well as the listed above way of how I load up everything, contribute to out of round paint, dimples, too fragile shell, rubbery shell, as well as paint that doesn't fly well.

I can pick up quality paint for $50-65 and use it for two game days. Making my cost much easier to take. And in addition, using up a whole case for myself in regular play is wasteful.

[Twistedpsyche]

This is a discussion I constantly have with my local field. My local field has FPO except one sunday a month where they do BYOP. BYOP days are by far their bussiest day. In fact they even sold out of paint on a BYOP day.

Well when they have scenarios they charge for admission which costs $35. Then they make you do FPO at their "discount" rate of $55 a case. I have gone round and round on them with this issue. I have easily 20 people who would LOVE to attend their scenarios, but can't because it is so cost prohibitive. It actually works out cheaper for us to drive an extra 20 miles out of state to a field that charges 40 for admission, but does BYOP.

We buy all our paint at our local store (no walmart paint here) and we get good quality paint for 40 a case. The field we travel out of state to has several different types of paint at reasonable prices.

I have written to our local field many times going over all the advantages, but they give the classic excuse "it's how we make our money". I promise you, allow BYOP (except monster balls of course) and provide good quality paint at a reasonable price and you can charge an extra 5 or 10 for admission. You would easily attract more people which means increased bussiness not only for the one event, but in the future as well. You lower overhead not having to carry as many different types of paint that can go bad. It helps support the local stores keeping them open. It's just a win/win.

I could go on and on, but I'm at work and don't have time.

[robnix]

Here's my answer.

I simply won't go to places that are FPO, and it's not because of pricing or paint quality. The area I'm in has enough competition that fields simply cant' rip you off on price. There's 9 places to go within an hour drive of my house, both speed and woods, indoor and outdoor. The competition also helps keep the paint quality up, so I can get a fresh case of tournament grade case for $60.00-$65.00.

I won't go to FPO fields simply because I always have leftover paint. I like to be able to use what I've purchased, so my day usually starts with me finishing off the last bag from the last time I played first. I went to one field that wouldn't even let me use it at the chrono/tech station. I don't think I've ever brought paint to a field and not purchased more either at the start of the day, or sometime later on,

[Chronobreak]

well msot ifnot all te fields ive been to are field paint only for rentals and private groups for obvious reasons, so tahts fine and all.

but they allow byop for Open play, since you can never please all the regulars

but i and others should expect to pay 10-20 more for not buying the paint at the field and supporting them.

fields that dont get much business or have alot of amenities may also have to charge more than certain fields, but fields gotta do what they have to do make $ and stay open.

[trevorjk]

well its $20 to get in either way where i play. there paint is Formula 13 for $80 a case. or i can BYOP. so $50 a case for good paint from my local store compared to $80 a case for decent paint. makes sense to me.

thats all i got

[flying Dutchman]

Okay guys for the most part what I'm hearing is the money thing. Again I understand that point. But work on this for a minute.

I've put evil through my mags and set them up to shoot 250-260.

With no change to the marker or the compressed air tank, I can throw Stinger in and watch them climb to 295-305 FPS

So in a BYOP situation where players may well borrow paint and trade paint during a game, how can you control the velocity and keep it safe????

Because if you started with the evil at 290 your stinger would blaze out of the marker at about 350 FPS

Where with field paint we've all chronographed on the same thing and we're all shooting the same thing.

If a field is going to be responseble to keep you safe you have to work with us.

Beside what's wrong with a field making a little money. If they get a penny a ball profit it helps them stay in business.

My refs make close to $10 an hour. With the Workmans Comp and the witholding taxes they cost me about $13.00 an hour. so the field fee pays the wages, the air fills pay for the compressor and if you BYOP what pays me back for investing thousand of dollars into a facility???

[68magOwner]

I only play at BYOP facilities, because, I get chronic pro (not going to cause velocity fluxuations or anything that will hurt my "targets") paint for free, and, dont have money to pay for paint otherwise.

I feel that if your going to make a field FPO, at least carry cheaper options for customers. like a $40 or $45/case ball as opposed to $60. I dont think most guys get paint for less than $40 anyway, and shouldnt be opposed to paying that.

Beyond cost, some fields just have bad paint. Take local big field Paintball Central for example. Now, they have the best facilities in the region, by far. They are a field paint only facility, which is fine, but, the paint they sell, honestly, shoots pretty well, is pretty consistent, but, bounces off everything. They sell another formula, that also shoots well, has a brittle enough shell, but, has a very runny fill. And both options are $65+ a case. Now, i just think thats a little high. BUT, at the same time, im sure running such amazing facilities isnt cheap at all, and, they have to make money somehow.

[Chronobreak]

Okay guys for the most part what I'm hearing is the money thing. Again I understand that point. But work on this for a minute.

I've put evil through my mags and set them up to shoot 250-260.

With no change to the marker or the compressed air tank, I can throw Stinger in and watch them climb to 295-305 FPS

So in a BYOP situation where players may well borrow paint and trade paint during a game, how can you control the velocity and keep it safe????

Because if you started with the evil at 290 your stinger would blaze out of the marker at about 350 FPS

Where with field paint we've all chronographed on the same thing and we're all shooting the same thing.

If a field is going to be responseble to keep you safe you have to work with us.

Beside what's wrong with a field making a little money. If they get a penny a ball profit it helps them stay in business.

My refs make close to $10 an hour. With the Workmans Comp and the witholding taxes they cost me about $13.00 an hour. so the field fee pays the wages, the air fills pay for the compressor and if you BYOP what pays me back for investing thousand of dollars into a facility???

have your tried weening your players off brinigng their own paint?

offering discounts for buying paint at the field.

like i sad our prices are $65 a case, $10 entry so 75 for a case,all day air and entry

now say you bring your own paint your gonna pay $20 for entry, and $5 for all day air. then add whatever they paid for paint elsewhere. Assuming they paid atleast $40 +for a decent case of paint its gonna be more $ than buying it at the field

also dont be afraid to tell your customers that it cost alot to run the place, some people need to have it spelled out for them as you can buy paint online for $30 a case in alot of places they think your making a killing and dont see the need to support the field.

theres aloso alot of other reasons to not allow people to bring paint, the fps changes are not one of the major ones if you ask me, just be sure that they know if they shoot over 300 or field limit they get one warning, do it again theyr done for the day no exceptions.

handheld chronos and random checks are your friend. and a 30+fps increase seems a bit absurd, but if thats the case lower your field limit to 275 or so.

[robnix]

Okay guys for the most part what I'm hearing is the money thing. Again I understand that point. But work on this for a minute.

I've put evil through my mags and set them up to shoot 250-260.

With no change to the marker or the compressed air tank, I can throw Stinger in and watch them climb to 295-305 FPS

So in a BYOP situation where players may well borrow paint and trade paint during a game, how can you control the velocity and keep it safe????

Because if you started with the evil at 290 your stinger would blaze out of the marker at about 350 FPS

Where with field paint we've all chronographed on the same thing and we're all shooting the same thing.

If a field is going to be responseble to keep you safe you have to work with us.

Most of the places I play at do red chrono checks before the start of the day, and handheld checks before each game. It won't help during the game, but it gives you some control.

Beside what's wrong with a field making a little money. If they get a penny a ball profit it helps them stay in business.

My refs make close to $10 an hour. With the Workmans Comp and the witholding taxes they cost me about $13.00 an hour. so the field fee pays the wages, the air fills pay for the compressor and if you BYOP what pays me back for investing thousand of dollars into a facility???

Nothing's wrong with a field making a little money. But the people you're asking this question to are a pretty knowledgeable bunch and won't be overcharged, especially if all you offer is stinger or white box paint. (Not singling you out on that, but there used to be an indoor place in my area that was FPO and sold white box for $40.00.) Charge a fair price and give people a choice in quality and people will buy your paint. Offer good services on top of that and they'll keep coming back over and over. I do even though I know I can get it a few bucks cheaper online because I know it helps keep my favorite places to play in business and it makes for a friendlier day for me at those fields.