byop or fpo

[Twistedpsyche]

Where in Maine is your field, what's the name? I live in NH and after what I hear I would be interested in checking it out.

BTW try a BYOP day maybe once a month. You might be surprised.
And most of the BYOP events I go to all ban certain types of paint like Monster Ball.

[flying Dutchman]

Fields make a lot of money off of paint. I'd rather not deprive my local field of that income and have them have to raise the entrance fees or charge me for air fills. Sure my local field charges 55 a case. But admission is $10 for 5 hours of play and free air the entire time.

Plus we've got a super modern and clean indoor X-Ball facility. I'd say the prices are pretty decent for the quality of the field. I'd rather support the field and have a better experience than have it turn into some slum that charges up the butthole for entry and air fills.

Thank you warbreak, That was a point I was waiting for someone to make. If you let a field make a little money they reinvest it in their facility. Good for everyone. BYOP can strangle a fields income and then you see sheaper grades paint selling for too much, old and stale paint because they can't sell it. FPO helps a field to do well BYOP can put them into survival mode just trying to stay in.

[flying Dutchman]

Where in Maine is your field, what's the name? I live in NH and after what I hear I would be interested in checking it out.

BTW try a BYOP day maybe once a month. You might be surprised.
And most of the BYOP events I go to all ban certain types of paint like Monster Ball.

Flying Dutchman Paintball In Guilford Maine, Dead center of the state. We hold tourneys both speedball and traditional (woodsball) We offer 3 scenarios a year and once we get to know a player we can do invitationals. An invitational is a private event where you can't get in unless we've offered it to you. We have one coming up in March where the indoor will be played in absolute darkness the only lights will be the tactical lights on our guns. Once you squeeze the trigger the flashlight comes on and everybody knows where you are. The lights are filtered green and red to sort the teams. This is a level of play we keep above the public for the players that have earned it. Play nice, very safe, enjoy the sport and be generally helpful to the field or the event and you'll get an invitation. The Invitational play is FREE

[flying Dutchman]

To refocus on the issue it's the pros and cons of Field paint only anf Bring Your Own Paint.

So far it looks like bring your own paint is cheaper for the player but harder on the field owner

The safety issues don't seem to concern very many players

Many players seem to hold the beleif that the fields sell crappy paint so they have to bring their own. Some may have done so on purpose some fields may have been driven to it because they don't have the profit margin to sell better paint.

I think the the entire problem is to be laid at the feet of the industry. To much supply not enough demand. As the price of paint drops it's harder to make a profit margin on it.

Now here's a fact I'll share with you folks. When I order an entire skid of paint you think they would cut me a break, maybe like $10 a case less then you could buy a single case for. That would be a profit margin for the business, It wouldn't hurt the players a bit. They don't I save betwenn 2 and 3 dollars a case. Not much of a volume discount is it.

[SR_matt]

by your FPO rules do the players have to have bought your paint THAT DAY at the field?

i have never played at a field that had that strict of FPO except at scenarios, all the places i go to will allow you to bring paint from their stores or paint that was used at their field before that you still have some left over (also most of those places turn over brands and fills a lot so having old paint can be from weekend to weekend)

if you do have it as FPO for the day then you need to be selling half cases and bags and at reasonable prices/ same equivalent as full cases.
-matt

[PumpPlayer]

It's actually quite a simple issue, in my opinion.

I prefer field paint only when that system is properly implemented.

When the field paint only system is broken, I prefer to be able to bring my own.



I'll give an example of two fields, one FPO, one BYOP. I won't name them but understand that these are major fields that I play on regularly.

FPO - They have been switching the paint around between events lately and the quality has been up and down. The paint is fairly expensive but they do try to get quality paint and they do make most of their money on paint sales. The nice thing about this field is that everyone has the same paint. You have the same paint-related problems as everyone else out there so there's no bias. Sure, everyone would like for the paint to always shoot well but that's never going to happen. By having a single brand of high-quality paint available, you eliminate any advantage that can be gained through the paint. I really, really like this.

BYOP - They sell paint at the field - various brands and quality. Sometimes you get a good batch, sometimes you don't. The field fee is also very high to compensate for the low paint sales. I have yet to get a batch of paint from this field that has shot well. The only solution is to BYO because the system is "broken." Good paint is a major advantage in the game. In a situation where good paint cannot be purchased but CAN be brought, those players who have the best paint have a significant advantage over others. Obviously, this leads to further handicapping of new players and/or renters who didn't know that they should have brought their own paint. As a recreational player, I don't like to see the new guys at such a huge disadvantage. Note that this would be the same problem if the field were FPO but had many brands to choose from, as new players would likely get the cheapest stuff and be at a disadvantage. Perhaps it's easy to argue that it's their own fault but really, doesn't the field have a responsibility to help new players and renters have a good time as well? I think cheap paint is a hindrance to that.



I think the perfect setup is to have a single brand of high-quality paint, FPO. It's fair for every player, helps keep the field fees down, provides better revenue for the field at a fair cost to the players and actually helps out the new players, even if they complain that the paint is too expensive.

[XMAG-XT00125]

It has to be field paint only, and the reason, as has been said before is the field operator has to make his money somewhere to cover overheads, field lease, power, insurance, wages etc..
The easiest and most effective way to do this is thru paint sales, not field fees...
Unless the field operator is running other amusements/sports to offset costs, this has to be done.
I see a number of posts here comment on bad paint and blame the field operator. i have seen 3 reasons for bad paint at fields.

1: The field op is running paint thru as cheap as he can to maximize profit.
2: The field op has a paint supplier who doesnt have a continuous supply of good quality paint and even when he does, the quality of two batches of the same paint can vary quite a bit in quality.
3: The people attending the field have complained about prices and as a reaction to this the field op has reduced prices and of course the quality of paint he supplies because at the price the public wants to pay, he can quite simply, just not afford the more expensive paint.

Cheers, Marty

[Chaos_Theory!]

Pretty much every field out there charges for BYOP so they make a profit anyway. Not taking cost into consideration is insane. Sure charging a little extra for paint is ok but a lot of fields go overboard. Im going to play today and went with BYOP and paying a fee rather than buying field paint. Why? Because it cost me $60 to buy 2 cases of the same paint the field has and charges $60 a case for. Most fields around me get a lot of their money from private parties anyway. Its easier for them to screw the once a year guys over by charging 3X the actual cost of the paint on top of field fees than it is to screw the regulars over.

[dstud2000]

I don't mind FPO if the paint is good. As I have stated the problem in my area is that the quality of the paint just isn't there to justify marked up price that the fpo fields charge.

Flying Dutchman, if the fields around me operated like you, or if you were in my area or I lived in your area, I would have no problem with your fpo rule. $60 a case for marbs or evil is a great price. Online stores aren't much different in price for those 2 paints.

How do you price partial cases? $30 for 1/2 case and $15 for 1/4 case?

I did ask one field why they use the paint they use (pro caps field grade) versus a higher grade paint, and the response I got was that the higher grade paints don't work well in tippmanns. I called foul on this owner. I ran a tippmann for quite a while and still use one when the weather is at its worst or as a loaner and never had a problem shooting higher end paint.

FPO is a double edge sword in my opinion. If ran like Flying Dutchman If ran like it is in my area

[Mechanic79]

I like to BYOP because I'm not going to shoot crap through my guns. I prefer shooting midnight or better. I like small bore paint as well. I don't mind paying BYOP fees to support the field. but I'm not going to purchase crappy field paint.

[SR_matt]

I don't mind FPO if the paint is good. As I have stated the problem in my area is that the quality of the paint just isn't there to justify marked up price that the fpo fields charge.

Flying Dutchman, if the fields around me operated like you, or if you were in my area or I lived in your area, I would have no problem with your fpo rule. $60 a case for marbs or evil is a great price. Online stores aren't much different in price for those 2 paints.

How do you price partial cases? $30 for 1/2 case and $15 for 1/4 case?

I did ask one field why they use the paint they use (pro caps field grade) versus a higher grade paint, and the response I got was that the higher grade paints don't work well in tippmanns. I called foul on this owner. I ran a tippmann for quite a while and still use one when the weather is at its worst or as a loaner and never had a problem shooting higher end paint.

FPO is a double edge sword in my opinion. If ran like Flying Dutchman If ran like it is in my area

well some of the higher ends paints that are more brittle will bust in a tippy depending on how it is set up, just like most paints that are brittle will break in my mag on the bolt (but i choose to deal with that for the highest efficiency)

-matt

[txaggie08]

I, as a player, will always buy field paint IF it is REASONABLY priced. That means no more than 10-25 bucks more than what I could get it for outside the field. If your price gouging, I'm not supporting you period. I am very well aware of what a case costs the average field btw, I know EXACTLY what kind of money we make on ours....it aint as much as you think it is.

We stock spank for 55$ a case as our lowest grade, and have fresh paint on site every week. Cryptic usually goes for 60$, and we get proball in that's going for 60-65(we cut people a break when we can't get the cryptic)


From a referee's standpoint, FPO is what keeps us afloat. We have, in recent months, allowed a compromise though. We will allow you to BYOP for a 15$ per person fee. between the 9.99$ field/air fee, and the 15$ BYOP fee, we make enough money to at least pay for the air you use and for the referee(at least most of his salary).


You have to be willing to pay to keep your local field running. You have to remember, high quality fields with trained and paid staff's need to make a certain amount in fees off each player to keep above water. If you refuse to live with FPO, get ready to go back to 30$+ field and air fees....

[ljpiller]

Provided the field can supply fresh paint FPO doesn't bother me a whole lot. If they do have that policy it would be nice to have a few brands to choose from too. The cost doesn't really bother me, I barely shoot enough to make a difference - and what I am paying for is the convenience of not having to go out to buy paint.

However, the problem happens when you have a field that does not know how to properly store paint, or they buy it in such large quantities that it is old by the time they go through it. You are at the mercy of their storage capabilities, and it's frustrating to know you could do a better job yourself.

[Hexis]

Personally i prefer FPO, with the caveat that the filed has decent paint. I'll gladly pay a bit more if there are mutiple paint options at the field.

I prefer FPO for safety reasons mostly. A number of local (Minneapolis/St Paul area) fields do BYOP for a fee. With those places I end getting shot by the nastiest crap. Hard as a rock, rank, staining, all kinds of crap. I would rather see the field be able to buy decent paint and make sure everyone is safe. On top of that the filed should make money off the paint, and that's a healthy thing (gotta like a business that stays in business).

[txaggie08]

Forgot to add the safety issue in.....


If it has a metallic blue shell, it's banned, period.