byop or fpo

[Lohman446]

A lot of people want a lot of things. These two kids in the other day wanted me to work on there car for free - and got a tad bit upset when I wouldn't. Never did figure that one out.

You are not in the business to make friends. You are in the business to offer goods and services at a fair price that allows you to be in business over the long term.

I have no qualms with field paint only. Especially if they are using high quality field paint and charging appropriately for it. What annoys me is when it gets out of hand ($75 for the "cheap" stuff + high entrance fees at IAO was out of hand).

I think the safety issues you are trying to come up with to cover are at best questionable. You could simply make it BYOP with "approved" paints and have an approved list if that was the main concern.

Personally, if it were me, I would charge $60 (or whatever) a day entrance fee and hand a case of paint to each player with paid entrance. If they want to bring in outside paint beyond that then fine - you've still sold each and every player a case. Personally I normally shoot about one case a day and have always cringed for the people who shoot two or three and cannot hunt the best possible deal on it.

[drg]

Well you could always prohibit paint sharing. I personally don't borrow paint, if I'm running low I move up, maybe make a suicide move, or play decoy if I run out.

Forgot to add the safety issue in.....

If it has a metallic blue shell, it's banned, period.

What's this all about?

[SR_matt]

only thing i could see is that ball bearings could be hidden in/confused for that color of shell... not sure how it could really do that much damage if the air pushing out the BB is the same for something 1/50th the weight i doubt it could go very far.

-matt

[txaggie08]

What's this all about?

All the really bad, really rock hard garbage, that comes in buckets(or the put it in a "tactical performance box and charge 10$ more for it) comes from the same place. It's all essentially "monster ball", and it's all an extremely thick shelled metallic blue, with a yellow oil based fill. We do not allow any of it, I don't care what brand it was sold under. Anything that a spyder will consistently not chop but just deforms......that's not safe. I've bled three times playing pb, twice was from that junk.

It IS a safety issue at that point, it has nothing to do with money. I'm not going to stand on the field as a ref and get shot with it either.

[drg]

Interesting. I've shot quite a bit of Inertia that was blue metallic shell.

[dstud2000]

the only blue metallic shell I have seen with a yellow fill has been monster ball, all the rest have been different color fills than yellow and were good paint.

Not meaning to hijack the thread but which paints are you reffering to that are the same as monsterball?

[Chaos_Theory!]

$60 a case for marbs or evil is a great price.

????

I get marbs and ultra for 40-45 all the time, id say 60 is prett damn steep.

[Pneumagger]

Well you could always prohibit paint sharing. I personally don't borrow paint, if I'm running low I move up, maybe make a suicide move, or play decoy if I run out.

I disagree here. What about stck class and pumpers who use maybe 200balls all day?
I have no problem with giving a buddy a ten (or lunch) for 2 pods worth of paint.
Stock class is awesome. $35 gets you all day fun and drunk at the end of the day. :)

I don't think there are any BYOP fields near me
The field I like in Canton is pretty reasonable. 3 grades of paints ($35/$45/$55), $10 entry, $10 for all day air.
Granted, the $35 is shootable paint but the midgrade is awesome paint for the price.
Personally my strategy is to split a case of midgrade with a firend and pump all day. Then in the last game or two blow through 400 rounds.


To answer the OP's question...

My Preference: I would prefer a field is a hybrid style if such is allowed. Let players bring thier own paint (subjected to a posted prohibited list of brands) if they so choose. The "BYOP fee" could simply be your projeted profit margin should they buy field paint. (Say you get paint on a skid for $35/case and charge $50/case... the BYOP fee should be $15). If they buy field paint, make sure it was stored properly and rotated regulary to keep it fresh. And be open and explain why the policy is there, because the paint is a large portion of the field's income. If the field owner can make BYOP and field paint equal in cost to the player, the player chooses convenience (field paint) or preference (byop) at no impact to the field's profit. It's a win-win situation. Plus, as an owner you can only stock one midgrade brand of paint and let people who demand cheaper or tournament paint bring thier own.


The Problem: I understand that the field's profit comes from economies of scale... they buy in bulk and pocket the difference when selling individually. If too many players bring thier own paint the field can't move as large a volume and thier profit margin for field paint drops... meaning when someone does buy field paint the field makes less profit. The real problem with this is the field musy buy enough paint to create a profit margin and they must quickly use purchased paint or it gets old. If the field owner can keep paint fresh by proper storage and rotation then this problem is helped a little.

Possible Solution: I believe the BYOP fee should be "variable" and posted/advertised.
1) Choose a profit margin for your field paint... say $15. This is really the only variable an owner should have to choose - an otimum price margin exists that pays the bills and attracts players. If a balance cannot be made you need to increase admission, buy cheaper paint, or choose a new business - that's life.
2)Control your market by influencing your players preferences to parallel your needs. When you have fresh inventory sell your field paint at normal $15 markup and with an equal BYOP fee. Every case shot on that field earns you $15 nomatter where it came from. If people start doing BYOP more then your inventory can get old and you decrease the price of inventory to clear your stock... but for every dollar you drop your inventory profit margin you raise the BYOP fee. Every case shot on the field still earns you the same profit. Conversely, say your running low on inventory... lower the BYOP fee and raise the markup on inventory so you don't have to reorder so soon.
3) Advertise on your website or in the proshop the following weekend's fee/prices so players can choose what they will do. The longer ahead and more accurately you can advertise the more ideal the system will work.

Aside from MAP pricing policys on paintballs, online retailers will always have a cheaper/fresher product.

[robnix]

Did you really run out of paint a few Sundays ago?

[lidocaine]

Flying Dutchman Paintball In Guilford Maine, Dead center of the state. We hold tourneys both speedball and traditional (woodsball) We offer 3 scenarios a year and once we get to know a player we can do invitationals. An invitational is a private event where you can't get in unless we've offered it to you. We have one coming up in March where the indoor will be played in absolute darkness the only lights will be the tactical lights on our guns. Once you squeeze the trigger the flashlight comes on and everybody knows where you are. The lights are filtered green and red to sort the teams. This is a level of play we keep above the public for the players that have earned it. Play nice, very safe, enjoy the sport and be generally helpful to the field or the event and you'll get an invitation. The Invitational play is FREE


------ok honestly that is one freaking awesome idea, wish my field'd do that.

[lidocaine]

I would reccomend having a VIP type pass.At my field its 25 dollars normally for all day air and entrance.If you get the VIP pass, its 150 and you get 10 visits with air and entrance.every time you renew the pass after the inital 150, its 100.So it comes down to 10 dollars per day for all day air and entrance.They sell paint at their store at GREAT prices.58 for a case of marbs, like 56-57 for case of evils and 56-57 for a case of all stars.Practically every single patron purchases paint from the store for such great prices.Even though they are only making 2 or 3 dollars per case off of us, they are getting so many people who buy their paint that they still make a killer.

$.02

[CoolHand]

I don't mind FPO when a few simple rules are followed by the field:

1) The paint is FRESH. By fresh I mean less than a month old.
2)3) Un-opened bags with broken paint in them are replaced, no excuses.
4) The price of said paint must be within 20% of retail/MSRP.

The problem is, around here, FPO means:

1) Stale paint that's been setting in a black metal shed (in MO in July) for three months, still stretch wrapped onto the pallet it was shipped from the manufacturer on. IE, it's lumpy, dimpled, stretchy from moisture and heat, and has weeped liquid to the point of needing to be toweled off before use.

2) Said paint will be from the cheapest possible source, usually Kick'n paint from Springfield MO. This paint is literally the worst stuff ever manufactured. It makes Brass Eagle paint, Monster Ball, and Big Ball look like Marbs.

3) Broken paint in your case? Tough. It's been setting in its own juices for months now, meaning the field can't use it for rental paint. They figure it's better you should take the hit than them.

4) The field will then turn around and sell this ultracheapo paint (which I can buy wholesale for less than $35 a case in less than skid quantities) for between $75-$115 a case, depending on how tightly they have a hold of your short-n-curlys.

I played in a tournament once that had one grade of Kick'n as their FPO paint. It was $95 a case. The paint was so bad, that I could not get it to shoot out of my VIKING. If a Viking can't get it to go down the barrel, ain't nothing else gonna either. Barrel breaks, crushed in the loader, crushed in the feed neck, blown up my the bolt, and on and on and on. I actually had one ball blow up in the vented portion of a 0.697" bore DYE Ultralight, you know, the part where the paint doesn't even touch the barrel anymore! The sizes of those balls varied so much that I had to abandon my Freak (which I only had the 0.691" bore for), and pick up my barrel of last resort, the DYE UL with a bore of 0.697", just to clear the huge balls that were mixed at random into the bags. Of course, the other 60% of the bag shot at about 230 fps because the bore was so much too big.

THAT is why I hate FPO, because around here it stands for F'ing People Over. They can get away with it, because they'll be the only field for 60 miles in any direction. They think they have a captive audience, and they ream you accordingly.

I buy my paint wholesale. I get together with my group of friends, and we decide what brand and how many cases we want, and I buy it. We only buy good brands that I trust to be round and break on the target but not in the marker. When it arrives, I inspect every bag of every case and affect repairs if necessary to save any bags with broken paint in them. I store it correctly, roll the boxes until we play, and nobody has any trouble with the paint. Consequently, my group of friends and I only go to play where we can bring our paint with us. If that means we have to play on my land in the woods, so be it, we have more fun and spend a lot less money to boot.

If we were to play at the Dutchman's field, we'd probably just shoot his paint. The prices are in line, and it sounds like he sells enough to keep it fresh. I don't begrudge a man making a profit, but I balk at out and out butt piracy.

Dutchman - You're having a hard time understanding why we players hate FPO so much because you are doing it in exactly the right way (and have been for long enough that you've started to assume everyone does it that way). If everyone did it that way, there would be a lot less animosity towards the idea of FPO from the players at large. The problem is, the fields like yours are few and far between, and out here basically don't exist. Keep fighting the good fight, and I hope you continue to do well at it, just don't expect people everywhere to get a warm fuzzy about FPO any time soon.

[txaggie08]

Dutchman - You're having a hard time understanding why we players hate FPO so much because you are doing it in exactly the right way (and have been for long enough that you've started to assume everyone does it that way). If everyone did it that way, there would be a lot less animosity towards the idea of FPO from the players at large. The problem is, the fields like yours are few and far between, and out here basically don't exist. Keep fighting the good fight, and I hope you continue to do well at it, just don't expect people everywhere to get a warm fuzzy about FPO any time soon.

That kind of field wouldn't get my business period if they care that little about customers. Ours is bout in smaller quantities from tank's in houston, where it's stored in an air conditioned warehouse. We keep it inside and only buy about a weeks worth at a time. We actually ran out late on sunday last week LOL, but we made it through....

the only blue metallic shell I have seen with a yellow fill has been monster ball, all the rest have been different color fills than yellow and were good paint.

Not meaning to hijack the thread but which paints are you reffering to that are the same as monsterball?

Tactical performance is the same thing. Generally, anything that comes in a plastic bucket is also from the same supplier, 99% of the time.

We will review brands we've never seen before, but the paint we're worried about is all the same thing. I'll get pictures of it sometime, but I assure you it's all the same stuff, we've cut apart almost every brand of it that's shown up. If you shoot it on your own, that's fine, but your not going to pummel our other customers with paint that's VISIBLY two to three times thicker shelled than even something like big ball. It's not the shell colour, or the fill, we have an issue with. it's the paint in specific that's the issue, and I've never seen a GOOD brand of paint that looks like the double dip crap that is monsterball and it's derivatives.

Let me rephrase it "if it's made, looks, and feels, like monsterball, your not shooting it on the field". I'll give you a bag for it, I'll let you go blast through it on our target range, but your not carrying it in your gun. We warn you when you walk in(as a matter of fact there's a sign up before you make it to our register) that it's not allowed, and we make it clear on the phone as well.

We're not the only field who bans it, most places are going to say no to this particular kind, regardless of the name on the box.

We also don't allow BYOP in rental guns now. It got to be a huge issue, because people where dragging in really bad paint, a lot of which is swollen from heat or humidity, and it pops in the spyder and tippmans. We can't afford to have people put two or three of our best guns down in the middle of a busy day because they want to shoot the cheapest crap they can get there hands on. We offer a small group package(supposed to be 5....our owner routinely gives it on a regular basis to smaller) , including 500 paintballs(fresh out of a case of spank), a rental, and all day admission/air, for 30$. Your not going to beat that even if you bring a full case in.

[drg]

I disagree here. What about stck class and pumpers who use maybe 200balls all day?
I have no problem with giving a buddy a ten (or lunch) for 2 pods worth of paint.
Stock class is awesome. $35 gets you all day fun and drunk at the end of the day. :)

I don't think there are any BYOP fields near me
The field I like in Canton is pretty reasonable. 3 grades of paints ($35/$45/$55), $10 entry, $10 for all day air.
Granted, the $35 is shootable paint but the midgrade is awesome paint for the price.
Personally my strategy is to split a case of midgrade with a firend and pump all day. Then in the last game or two blow through 400 rounds.

I think you misunderstood. I'm specifically talking about the OP's "safety concern" with paint sharing *during games*.

[Pneumagger]

I think you misunderstood. I'm specifically talking about the OP's "safety concern" with paint sharing *during games*.

Hey, if some electro paint slinger needs more paint during a game I have no problem tossing him a 10rounder.