byop or fpo

[robnix]

offering discounts for buying paint at the field.

like i sad our prices are $65 a case, $10 entry so 75 for a case,all day air and entry

now say you bring your own paint your gonna pay $20 for entry, and $5 for all day air. then add whatever they paid for paint elsewhere. Assuming they paid atleast $40 +for a decent case of paint its gonna be more $ than buying it at the field

This is exactly what the place I'm going to this weekend does. It's a great system that balances the pricing out.

[Chronobreak]

yeahp good service goes a very long way.

forgot to add, if someone buys your paint make sure they know they are being guaranteed a great time. if they have gun problems give em a rental and get em back out there shooting your paint!

if they bring their own, say if you buy our paint well give you a free rental, or would have, but be nice about it.

its just like buying a gun online or from your local pro shop.

if you buy something online you cant expect the local shop owner to waste his time and $ on it when you diddnt get it from him.

[robnix]

yeahp good service goes a very long way.

forgot to add, if someone buys your paint make sure they know they are being guaranteed a great time. if they have gun problems give em a rental and get em back out there shooting your paint!

if they bring their own, say if you buy our paint well give you a free rental, or would have, but be nice about it.

its just like buying a gun online or from your local pro shop.

A buddy of mine was borrowing my backup at the time which was a classic mag on an AA Armageddon. The LP gauge broke about 30 minutes into play and there was no replacement to be found, so the one of the guys working at the field handed him a screw in HPA tank to use with a duckbill that I had so he could keep playing. He bought a half a case later to keep playing that he would have never bought if we wouldn't have had a replacement. I also ended up at the store that the field had the next Monday to buy a new gauge for the tank. It was a more than what I would have paid online, but it was the little bit I could do for the outstanding service at the field.

[dstud2000]

As I said before, my experience here with FPO has been quality and freshness issues. Flying Dutchman it sounds like your FPO setup is fairly decent and if you keep it fresh and stored well, then your customers will be happy, if the fields I played at offered the FPO paint you did and kept stored well then I would be more than happy to help support an FPO field. As it is now there is only 1 BYOP field left in my area, all the rest are FPO. So I generally play where I have had the best luck with paint. All the FPO places in my area sell pro caps brand paint, except one place, which if it is alteast Blaze is fine, I just wish they would offer an RPS alternative like marbs or evil.

[flying Dutchman]

As I said before, my experience here with FPO has been quality and freshness issues. Flying Dutchman it sounds like your FPO setup is fairly decent and if you keep it fresh and stored well, then your customers will be happy, if the fields I played at offered the FPO paint you did and kept stored well then I would be more than happy to help support an FPO field. As it is now there is only 1 BYOP field left in my area, all the rest are FPO. So I generally play where I have had the best luck with paint. All the FPO places in my area sell pro caps brand paint, except one place, which if it is alteast Blaze is fine, I just wish they would offer an RPS alternative like marbs or evil.

We order by the skid and we order every 3-4 weeks so it's not old paint you'll be shooting.
Evil, Chronic and All Star are about the best your going to do for quality

My big fear is that the some of the crap paint some of the players try to bring in is as hard as a rock.

The different bore sizes make it impossible to lock down velocity.

One group showed up to use the indoor last week. They had 5 cases of stinger, empty air tanks and $20 bucks between the four of them. They were really ticked off when I sent them home. They told me $20 was better than nothing! I sent the ref home and turned down the heat. Here in Maine our heated indoor sets us back $400.00 a week in just heat. If you cut the profit out of the business you will kill it. Or reduce it to guys behind someones house.

If this sport is going to grow and be healthy, there has to be enough reason (profit) for business people to invest in it.

[robnix]

We order by the skid and we order every 3-4 weeks so it's not old paint you'll be shooting.
Evil, Chronic and All Star are about the best your going to do for quality

My big fear is that the some of the crap paint some of the players try to bring in is as hard as a rock.

So check the paint that people bring in then.

The different bore sizes make it impossible to lock down velocity.

We've already given you a game to game solution for this that's cheap to implement and only adds a minute or two to each game. If locking velocity down is such a huge concern, then you'll also enforce rules like no tools on the field and velocity locks on mags.

One group showed up to use the indoor last week. They had 5 cases of stinger, empty air tanks and $20 bucks between the four of them. They were really ticked off when I sent them home. They told me $20 was better than nothing! I sent the ref home and turned down the heat.

They deserved to be refused entry, but not for the cheap paint, just for being idiots in general.

Here in Maine our heated indoor sets us back $400.00 a week in just heat. If you cut the profit out of the business you will kill it. Or reduce it to guys behind someones house.

Every business has it's expenses

If this sport is going to grow and be healthy, there has to be enough reason (profit) for business people to invest in it.

You're sounding like you're trying to find people to help you justify going FPO, Instead, be creative and find additional ways your field can make money. Diversify where your profit comes from instead of relying on one primary source of revenue. Install some vending machines, sell cheap barrel socks, pods, etc... low margin high profit items to supplement the income you get from field fees and paint. One field I go to runs concessions complete with double cheeseburgers and hot dogs made to order.

I'm not trying to sound rude about this, but the business you're in is at it's core is a service business. You're service just happens to be running a paintball field. I would focus on how to provide the best service possible for all your customers, safety is a part of that, but there's a lot more to it as well.

[SR_matt]

byop is good on the side of the players get the paint for cheaper, they can play with what they like (i have not gotten to play with chronic for well over a year probably pushing on 2 because the field i play at now doesnt sell it any more). but at the same time you have junkier paint, harder paint, etc etc

FPO, consistent results for all the players (if one player is having a bad day with the paint there will be a lot others).

basically i dont mind FPO but i hate the fact that i pay 20 bucks more per case than what they sell it for at their retail store. if you want to do FPO 60 is not a bad price for those paints you listed but maybe even knocking a few bucks off (not sure what you would sell it for in a storefront type resale )

hmm 10 bucks an hour plus benefits? can i ref for you, got almost 2 years experance in reffing, plenty of people relations experance and played for over 5 years . seriously though i was reffing for a case of cheaper paint or 50 bucks store credit a day and free field and air fees. so i was making around 6-7 bucks worth of goods and services with no benefits. all i have to say is that those refs better be the best refs in your state if they are getting that (not that i think they shouldnt but if any of them were slacking i wouldnt feel bad about shooting them a few times knowing they are getting paid that well)

personally if there was a field that was selling paint for the same or just a few bucks more than the retail store (not 10 bucks more, like 5 tops) i would happily frequent that field more and probably be willing to spend a little more money or more frequently if im getting a good or at least reasonable deal. so basically look at it as over all income not income on sales

from working at a field i see the side of BYOP not being great if not just being a PIA for all sides but i also think that paint gets jacked up way to much at fields

-matt

[flying Dutchman]

We've always been a Field Paint Only facility. In the 20 plus years of operation it's been the only way to operate that controls many safety issues.

I guess I'm missing the big point, but it seems to be an issue to me, when a field has 5-6 different makes of paint and as many bore sizes. And the players can change size under fire. That means a possible velocity change.

It's the same thing as changing a barrel in the middle of the game. No player in their right mind would think that safe without rechecking their speed. So if were behind a bunker and you run out of paint, I toss you a tube and you load and fire you know have an unchronographed gun.

When we buy our paint we test the 3-4 types we like and check them for consistancy over the chroney using several types of markers. We do a break test using a weight stack to see where the shell lets go. We do accuracy tests at field speeds. Then and only then we take the paint that scored the best and we order 100 plus cases. 3 weeks later we do it again. That's part of the service we offer. Of course we do food and beverage but at 75 cents a soda and a $1 a burger we sell that stuff at cost for the players benefit.


I guess it's all in your point of view. A professional field isn't a backyard thing, Some players love it others hate it.

And to be clear wrenches on the field gets you a quick trip to the parking lot.

We even tried reball so the folks could play cheaper. $10.00 per hour for reball unlimited balls. Your could shoot 20,000 balls for $10. Couldn't make it work, to many people wouldn't admit they were hit! Got to love that.

[SR_matt]

ve never really checked how much difference you can get between barrel sizes but from swapping backs and stuff i never remember a jump as much as more consistency vs less consistency. i think as long as your chronoing under 285 you wont get a spike enough to get it over 300 (but physics is weird and may totally smack me over the head with opposite results)

from the amount of testing you do on the paint i would happily play at your field and pay 5-10 more a case than what is normal retail but i would also assume that you stand behind it enough that if there is an issue to swap the paint or refund the paint if for any reason there is a bad case.

that type of field might not appeal to some younger players or players on a tight budget but personally even though i am on a tight budget being a college student i would pay for it at your field.


what you could do is like once a month or some time interval do a BYOP day, or have a BYOP section every so often (not sure how big your set up is so weather or not you could run multiple groups at one time) but if you were to do that i would assume you would charge 5 bucks a person or what ever more just like how tournies have the BYOP fee.

personally i would not want to go to a field and play BYOP, i dont like getting hit with paint that will not break thus leading to whining people, paint that is to thin to tell that it broke, or paint that is going to stain things like my lenses and stain my skin for days (dont have an issue with getting messy just dont like having what looks like a rash randomly on my body). playing with friends BYOP wouldnt be as big a deal to me because none of use would waste money on cheap junk... at least on purpose or if its field paint we dont have a choice with.

-matt

[KKPASA]

In my area we have one indoor and one outdoor field to play. The paint at each place is FPO. I've yet to see a BYOP day at either field. The paint that each field offers is decent paint however, both fields charge $65 a case. With entry and all day air I'm at $90 for a couple of hours of play, causing me to have to wait at least two months between play. If these fields offered more than one choice of paint, at different rates, I could play longer and more often.

[SR_matt]

i forgot to mention that i have never played at a field where there was only 1 type of paint. even at huge scenarios they have at least 2 types of paint.

i used to work at a field that had 3 or 4 levels of paint. white box, mid grade (midnight, tork), higher grade (chronic, marbs iirc) then some times some high grade (ultimate chronic aka chronic 420, some of the anarchy or things of that level but not very common). some times we had low low end like brown box/ 2nds/3rds. i never experienced any increased chrono issues and also with that we could easily cover our selves if we got a bad pallet of paint. while it may be a little harder on the management side the customer satisfaction i think ends up being much higher due to size, brand, color, brittleness preferences

-matt

[Chronobreak]

im not sure if there is a question here still, or if there ever was.

the thread seemed to be a question weather to go FPO or not, then it turned into a justification.

I think robnix sumed it up best

as for me it sounds like your in the Paintball industry...Get out!

Im gonna tell you what my boss always tells me, "we arent in the paintball business, we are in the entertainment business our products just happen to be paintballs and accesories"

[robnix]

All this being said, flyingdutchman runs the best field in Maine, so regardless what our opinions are, he's doing something right. I just wish there were some good pictures of his fields after reading this.

http://www.pbreview.com/fields/reviews/1386/

[warbeak2099]

Fields make a lot of money off of paint. I'd rather not deprive my local field of that income and have them have to raise the entrance fees or charge me for air fills. Sure my local field charges 55 a case. But admission is $10 for 5 hours of play and free air the entire time.

Plus we've got a super modern and clean indoor X-Ball facility. I'd say the prices are pretty decent for the quality of the field. I'd rather support the field and have a better experience than have it turn into some slum that charges up the butthole for entry and air fills.

[cerrik]

You could always run with other novel ideas, like sponsering teams by giving them "Home Team" status... in return for things like free entry and discounts on paint, work a deal where they come ref for you at times and help with field maint. that way, you can lower the amount of paid staff you have on hand.

Or, for those that are $ conscious or even like a few I've seen on here, have trouble using all that paint each time. Set up a storage system. Zip tie the players name to there extra bag(s) and store it for the next time they come in to play. It's still field paint, and you have it in your possession so you can be sure it's not crap, and it's not been put in the freeze. With your eye on it, you can watch it, toss it if it sits too long. Record the date and players name and then give them some sort of discount because they are a returning customer who will more than likely buy a new case from you right then and there.

Not perfect solutions I'll admit. But it's a start to lower some costs and a possible way to ease everyone's qualms about FPO.