G-Force frame, not vaporware!

[Spider-TW]

I took alot of time learning how to do this and added what i thought would be better in the long run. That would be me engineering how the frame and parts would work best.
Cy

Yeah, as much as I look forward to an immediate comparison of the G-Force frame to a Cyberave or Pneumagger frame, I really wouldn't be satisfied until a few people played with it for about 8 to 10 cases of paint. Smack some barricades and collect some paint and shell with it.

If the frames are still solid after that, then the buyers will have an interesting piece of mag history.

These packages use Canada Post tracking, which don't have live tracking, and have zero tracking once they hit customs. After customs, all you get is delivery confirmation.

Which is only good for knowing that they delivered it and you don't have it.

[drg]

These packages use Canada Post tracking, which don't have live tracking, and have zero tracking once they hit customs. After customs, all you get is delivery confirmation.

Ah, too bad. The guy I was replying to was talking about USPS delivery confirmation.

[robertsr1811]

"2008/08/09 17:58 MARKHAM, ON Item accepted at the Post Office"

Well, something is coming my way. I'll post photos as soon as it gets here. I am completely prepared to eat my words if this all comes though.

[Hilltop Customs]

no reason to eat any words unless Garf can go back in time and deliver it on time....or go back in time an handle the whole situation better.

[jade_monkey07]

no reason to eat any words unless Garf can go back in time and deliver it on time....or go back in time an handle the whole situation better.

2nd

[robertsr1811]

Nope, I hadpretty much doubted that any product was coming given the length of time this has taken and was looking into my legal options. When I open my box I'll take nice pictures and say I was wrong if it's all hunky dory.

[MANN]

Talk about a completely irrelevant point. Trigger springs have been in use forever and suggesting that wear or breakage is a significant concern is quite frankly idiotic.

LOL. Someone states that springs are better than magnets for return force. I state that springs break and wear. How is that completely irrelevant? It is a fact. Just because someone fails at doing something for a long period of time does not make it "right"

[Hilltop Customs]

a slightly stiffer spring for the 3 way would have fixed the problem, and been easier/cheaper than milling spring pockets and supplementing with a large spring or magnet. Also a slightly stiffer spring in the 3 way would have been an internal part never seen, and never broken by the user. Hell even a small spacer placed behind the current spring might work(never took apart one of these 3 ways yet)



I cant wait to see what the finished product looks like, I'll be watching for some pics.

[drg]

LOL. Someone states that springs are better than magnets for return force. I state that springs break and wear. How is that completely irrelevant? It is a fact. Just because someone fails at doing something for a long period of time does not make it "right"

Who said they are better than magnets?

[drg]

a slightly stiffer spring for the 3 way would have fixed the problem, and been easier/cheaper than milling spring pockets and supplementing with a large spring or magnet. Also a slightly stiffer spring in the 3 way would have been an internal part never seen, and never broken by the user. Hell even a small spacer placed behind the current spring might work(never took apart one of these 3 ways yet)

Well the benefit of having it external to the 3-way is that it is adjustable and removable. And I wouldn't doubt if simply stiffening up the 3-way would lead to more short-stroking issues.

[cyberave68]

Well the benefit of having it external to the 3-way is that it is adjustable and removable. And I wouldn't doubt if simply stiffening up the 3-way would lead to more short-stroking issues.

You mean less short-stroking issues. The problem with the spring in the MSV is that is so soft that it does not return the trig fast enuff or is not strong enuff to completly close between shots. I stronger spring or magnets is how you get rid of short-stroking the MSV and the valve....

[drg]

You mean less short-stroking issues. The problem with the spring in the MSV is that is so soft that it does not return the trig fast enuff or is not strong enuff to completly close between shots. I stronger spring or magnets is how you get rid of short-stroking the MSV and the valve....

No, I meant more. I'm thinking keeping the switch activation pressure light and using an external spring or magnet return would be less prone to short stroking than increasing switch activation pressure to make up for the lack of an external return.

But it's just a theory, have you tried putting a stiffer spring in the MSV? If so is it the same as using external return?

[Hilltop Customs]

drg-I dont really consider a spring you have to cut, adjustable. If the frame included a spring tension set screw then it would be adjustable, but with the current setup if you cut too much off the spring you have to throw it away and get a new spring. Also if you adjust the trigger stops and 3 way activation point, you might have to get another spring because its now out of adjustment.

the standard 3 way doesnt apply enough force to reset itself and return the trigger....currently we add springs or magnets to reset the trigger and allow the 3 way to reset itself. The exact same can be accomplished with a stronger spring in the 3 way that is capable of applying enough force to push the trigger back....the trigger would still feel the same as one with an additional external trigger spring. (also having the force to return the trigger generated by the 3 way spring has an added benifit: if the 3 way ever gets gummed up it will be more likely to work with a stronger spring than with the current light spring)

I cant tell you if a stiffer spring or spacer would really work in one of these 3 ways though, as Ive never taken them apart.

[drg]

drg-I dont really consider a spring you have to cut, adjustable. If the frame included a spring tension set screw then it would be adjustable, but with the current setup if you cut too much off the spring you have to throw it away and get a new spring. Also if you adjust the trigger stops and 3 way activation point, you might have to get another spring because its now out of adjustment.

Well that's no harder than existing back-engineered solutions, but the built-in solution is a certainly a good thing.

the standard 3 way doesnt apply enough force to reset itself and return the trigger....currently we add springs or magnets to reset the trigger and allow the 3 way to reset itself. The exact same can be accomplished with a stronger spring in the 3 way that is capable of applying enough force to push the trigger back....the trigger would still feel the same as one with an additional external trigger spring. (also having the force to return the trigger generated by the 3 way spring has an added benifit: if the 3 way ever gets gummed up it will be more likely to work with a stronger spring than with the current light spring)

Is that just an assumption or empirical truth? I am aware of the operational considerations of the MSV, having a pneumag myself, but I wonder if making the switch harder to throw is indeed identical WRT shortstroking than applying that extra force to the trigger.

[Hilltop Customs]

they both accomplish the same thing, applying more return force to the trigger, their method of action is extremely similar(one pushes on the trigger directly while the other pushes on a rod that pushes on the trigger) so I think its safe to assume that their effects would be the same. If it was me, Id rather have the added force go through the 3 way to make operation of the 3 way more reliable.

Now the availability of a spring with a higher tension(K value) that is the same size of the current 3 way spring might be a problem, thats why I mentioned spacers earlier....pre-compress the spring a little and you will have your higher return force.

just pulled apart an msv-2 and I see no reason whatsoever that it wouldnt work. there are 5 parts excluding the body...

Rear screw->spring->o-ring pin->o-ring->activation pin

the spring is about .2 in. and is a cone shaped, extremely light.

Actually, I just tightened down the screw farther than what it was originally, and it increased the return force to the point I dont think there is any chance of short stroking....go figure

edit: you can turn in the screw about 1 3/4 turns past flush with the body and it still works fine, anything past that the rear screw begins to interfere with the o-ring pin. Anyone ever do this in their mag? I only have an ep mag so I cant really try it in a working mag. I have 2 msv-2's here and you can definitely tell the difference between the one thats turned in and the one that isnt. It would be really interesting to see what a different spring would do.