G-Force frame, not vaporware!

[drg]

they both accomplish the same thing, applying more return force to the trigger, their method of action is extremely similar(one pushes on the trigger directly while the other pushes on a rod that pushes on the trigger) so I think its safe to assume that their effects would be the same. If it was me, Id rather have the added force go through the 3 way to make operation of the 3 way more reliable.

Now the availability of a spring with a higher tension(K value) that is the same size of the current 3 way spring might be a problem, thats why I mentioned spacers earlier....pre-compress the spring a little and you will have your higher return force.

just pulled apart an msv-2 and I see no reason whatsoever that it wouldnt work. there are 5 parts excluding the body...

Rear screw->spring->o-ring pin->o-ring->activation pin

the spring is about .2 in. and is a cone shaped, extremely light.

Actually, I just tightened down the screw farther than what it was originally, and it increased the return force to the point I dont think there is any chance of short stroking....go figure

edit: you can turn in the screw about 1 3/4 turns past flush with the body and it still works fine, anything past that the rear screw begins to interfere with the o-ring pin. Anyone ever do this in their mag? I only have an ep mag so I cant really try it in a working mag. I have 2 msv-2's here and you can definitely tell the difference between the one thats turned in and the one that isnt. It would be really interesting to see what a different spring would do.

I might just give this a try

In any event, my point is not that the solution is better or worse than others, only that it is an engineered-in solution, which many if not most DIY jobs don't have.

I get the feeling that people are just looking for reasons to nitpick this frame based on the maker's business practices. Try to separate the two out.

[Hilltop Customs]

drg:
I'm sorry if I came off nitpicking I'm not trying to, I just saw someone mentioned springs, and then magnets...I thought I would give an opinion of what I thought was a good alternate to both

Every time Ive posted in these G-force threads Ive tried to be as unbiased as possible, when I did complain about Garf it was just for his poor business practices, or to try to quiet a special supporter of his recently....but Ive always tried to be respectful of everyone involved. I'm not going to post about possible flaws I see in the frame, unless someone starts experiencing problems related to those flaws. I mentioned the flaw in the spring design because you said about the adjust ability of the spring, and I thought it was relevant to point out how limited the adjust ability of the spring without a tension setscrew really is.

I'm not trying to rain on the parade of these frames arriving, that is just mean to the customers who have dealt with all this customer service crap already. But you also have to watch out for supporting a product no one has received and therefore used, also.(not directly at you drg, but anyone who supports the frame before using it)



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Just a little comment on the word engineered......this has drove me nuts since this frame was first described as engineered...

Something that is engineered has every effort of many people to make sure there is not a single flaw, because if there is a flaw it will bring about huge ramifications.

One engineer can design something and completely miss many flaws, bring in a second engineer and a high percentage of the flaws disappear, add a third and now your have a product that has been engineered. I doubt Garf himself would call this frame engineered, and if he did he is full of it....


wow I type long responses when I'm playing video games...and I trimmed 1/2 of it out

[drg]

Just a little comment on the word engineered......this has drove me nuts since this frame was first described as engineered...

Something that is engineered has every effort of many people to make sure there is not a single flaw, because if there is a flaw it will bring about huge ramifications.

One engineer can design something and completely miss many flaws, bring in a second engineer and a high percentage of the flaws disappear, add a third and now your have a product that has been engineered. I doubt Garf himself would call this frame engineered, and if he did he is full of it....

wow I type long responses when I'm playing video games...and I trimmed 1/2 of it out

Not to try to pick an argument, but not in common parlance. There is no set requirement for using the word in general discussion other than the operation using some engineer-like skill.

[SCpoloRicker]

I work for engineering; so I'm really getting a kick out of a lot of these replies.

/etc, etc

[warbeak2099]

According to the usps website, my frame should get to me within 2-3 days. I'll get pics and vids up as soon as I get it.

[Hilltop Customs]

never heard the saying "common parlance" be4....learn something new everyday



If someone accepts the word engineered as having no set requirements, they shouldnt be using the word since it has no meaning to them. Ask an engineer what it means when they have engineered something.....then you have the definition.

Its true that the definition may very depending who your talking to, but you should agree an engineered product should never dip below acceptable. Have the customers here found their frames acceptable so far? If the frame were engineered they wouldnt be 10 months late, engineering extends well in to product planning/shipping scheduling/delivery dates.

What I posted earlier was my definition of engineered, as an engineer myself....I would never accept anything less. Engineers who do accept less are huge liabilities.




Oh BTW if you try to tighten the msv-2, find a screw driver that fits the slot as tight as possible....and back the screw out a few turns first....then tighten it in about 1 3/4 turns past flush. The screw was REALLY tight at first and if you try to screw it in off the bat you may end up going too far without realizing and doing damage.


warbeak2099, thats good to hear, have you talked to Garf anymore? any news if the rest of the frames are shipping?

[warbeak2099]

warbeak2099, thats good to hear, have you talked to Garf anymore? any news if the rest of the frames are shipping?

I spoke to him yesterday. He didn't say anything about other frames, I only asked him about mine. He did talk about some other projects but I told him it's not worth it since no would be likely to buy anything from him again. It sounded like some really cool stuff though.

[Hilltop Customs]

I wouldnt say no one would buy from him again, but I doubt anyone would pre-order after witnessing how badly Garf handled this fiasco.

[robertsr1811]

When I spoke to him Garf said that he has been shipping frames for some time now and that most of the orders were from people who were not on AO, so that's why the masses aren't posting about getting their frames. He also said that he hadn't responded to the requests for photos for fear of people copying the design before he had a chance to deliver the product.

Just passing along info...

[Steelrat]

Yeah, right.

[warbeak2099]

I wouldnt say no one would buy from him again, but I doubt anyone would pre-order after witnessing how badly Garf handled this fiasco.

I kind of hinted to him that if he does do it, it shouldn't be a pre-order. It's definitely something that people would be interested in though. He's basically got a mag valve shooting down to the last 350psi in a tank. He says it's got consistancy issues though so he's going to keep working on it.

[insixdays777]

I kind of hinted to him that if he does do it, it shouldn't be a pre-order. It's definitely something that people would be interested in though. He's basically got a mag valve shooting down to the last 350psi in a tank. He says it's got consistancy issues though so he's going to keep working on it.

He can keep his LP mag....IS Gforce really Smartparts? SmartMag anyone?

Although I would like to see his hopper design....

[warbeak2099]

He can keep his LP mag....IS Gforce really Smartparts? SmartMag anyone?

Although I would like to see his hopper design....

Gee I'd be interested in a mag that can shoot down to 350psi. The only complaint I have about my mags is their inability to shoot deep into the tank. I do hope he's not just sticking a "magic box" on the side of the valve though. I'm kind of interested in what the hell he's done to get such results.

[cyberave68]

When I spoke to him Garf said that he has been shipping frames for some time now and that most of the orders were from people who were not on AO, so that's why the masses aren't posting about getting their frames. He also said that he hadn't responded to the requests for photos for fear of people copying the design before he had a chance to deliver the product.

Just passing along info...

Where else would you sell mag parts? If i'm not mistaken these are mag frames ...right????
And why send them to everybody else first?

Sounds funny to me....

[insixdays777]

WOW...what BS...HE could not make the frame in under 10 months, Why does he think someone can copy them from a photo in 2 weeks? HAHAHAHA....