From MCB: Safety warning regarding SA8

[Smoothice]

Have you done extensive shot to shot testing on the SA-8? Or did you shoot two or three times over a chrono and say that's good enough?

Different safety (or lack thereof in this case) means things like shot to shot consisteny can change dramatically. The SA-8 doesn't have to be consistent because you aren't overly concerned with NOT causing harm. You just don't want to kill the person being shot. Therefore, it can hit harder.

And by extensive shot to shot testing I don't mean pulling the trigger once every 5 to 10 seconds or shooting just 200 rounds through it.

Try shooting fast, shooting slow and run a couple CASES of paint through it. Then tell me it's consistency.

So instead of answering my question you change your argument? Good call...

[Frizzle Fry]

So instead of answering my question you change your argument? Good call...

Sounds like a question more than an argument?

Anyway I'm out of this one; people just don't (and won't) agree and frankly I think only 3 of us have actually fired and disassembled the marker anyway.

[Smoothice]

Sounds like a question more than an argument?

Anyway I'm out of this one; people just don't (and won't) agree and frankly I think only 3 of us have actually fired and disassembled the marker anyway.

Agreed. No one is going to change their mind on this one.

I've fired and disassembled mine

Then polished the internals

[Loguzzzzzz]

I've fired and disassembled mine

Then polished the internals

^^^^^ what he said^^^^^

[CatoRockwell]

The argument keeps going over the same stuff so let me see if I've surmised the views:

1. physically it is the same as a paintball marker and is technically no more dangerous than one. So it shouldn't be treated any different by the pb community just because it was labeled differently so Tiberius can make more money off of them.

2. It has been identified by the manufacturer as a LLW not a recreational item. Therefore from a legal standpoint you are more liable as a player, field owner, or manufacturer.

You are both right, there is no more point in arguing about this:
Any rational person who has experience in the sport recognizes that a label doesn't make something mechanically different.
However, you have to realize that Americans are stupid, and in our sue-happy I'm-not-responsible-for-my-actions-the-big-bad-business-man-is world if this ever got taken to court you would be screwed because of a label.
It's not right, but thats how our jacked up country is.

View#1 you are right, ideally we should judge things for what they really are, not just what a label tells us. However, you need to understand that in our jacked up society it is not ideal and juries and the public will just see the label. You will not only find yourself screwed, but it will also have a negative effect on the paintball community.

View#2 you are right, legally that label is all that matters. However, just because a manufacturer labeled something as a LLW, despite being virtually identical according to all owners I've heard from, does not mean that it is not just as safe or unsafe for paintball.

As a Concealed Weapons Permit holder, I daily have to recognize the difference between what is right & what the law is. In my mind I have every right to carry a firearm and to use that firearm if I fear for my property or life. Unfortunately, because of the media, and a pussified american people who have a phobia with firearms, I have to walk a very thin line and be extra careful not to step beyond what a Jury would define as reasonable action.

Laying the matter to rest. Field owners will determine what they determine, and Outlaw fields will continue to allow anyone who chronos their "contraption" to play.

[MANN]

Laying the matter to rest. Field owners will determine what they determine, and Outlaw fields will continue to allow anyone who chronos their "contraption" to play.

That about sums it up

[Lohman446]

Update from Tiberius

[CatoRockwell]

Well there you have it. You've got to at the very least give Tiberius credit for staying in touch with the online community.

[FutureMagOwner]

I don't see saving a few bucks by buying a LLW is worth the risk of being subject to ADW charges and serious jail time. No matter how you justify it in your mind, that can happen a lot easier with this than it can any paintball marker.

[pump]

damn how unsafe is the SA8?
will it blow up? cut you? or just shoot hot?
if it just shoots hot, how hot?

[Smoothice]

I don't see saving a few bucks by buying a LLW is worth the risk of being subject to ADW charges and serious jail time. No matter how you justify it in your mind, that can happen a lot easier with this than it can any paintball marker.

Most of these were purchased under the assumption they were identical to a tac8. Then when people started receiving them it was confirmed that they came shooting hot but could very simply be turned down to shoot under 300fps.

[FutureMagOwner]

Most of these were purchased under the assumption they were identical to a tac8. Then when people started receiving them it was confirmed that they came shooting hot but could very simply be turned down to shoot under 300fps.

It has nothing to do with the velocity of it, it is not for recreational use, that isn't an assumption it was very clear. No matter how safe or unsafe it may be, it is not for use in paintball. It is classified as a less lethal WEAPON, and if you intentionally use it on the field you are running the risk of being charged with 1st degree assault with a deadly weapon and criminal negligence. I know that can happen with legitimate paintball marker as well, for example people doing drive by's and taking someones eye out. That is because the marker was not used for its intended purpose (on a recreational field with consenting parties, proper safety rules, etc). Using this pistol on a field is the same case, it is not meant to be on a paintball field.

I understand from a mechanical aspect it is the same as other paintball guns, but it is not a paintball gun. Again, I will make the point that it is not worth taking that risk to save a few bucks, this isn't some ploy by TA to get you to spend money on a full price pistol. It is to cover their ***, because of something pepperball did, and to cover the asses of the people who bought these pistols. They don't want to see people getting hurt, and going to jail because they wanted to save some cash by buying equipment meant for the military.

[CatoRockwell]

Now come on guys let's not start all this again. We know that mechanically it's a paintball gun but a cop, a judge, and a jury are only going to see the label. The last thing paintball needs right now is negative publicity.

[Lohman446]

Can paintball rounds be shot from a PepperBall launcher?

No. PepperBall Technologies, Inc. does not suggest nor can we warrantee your purchase of our projectiles or launchers should use them in any products other than those you purchase from PepperBall. This policy protects our customers from potential problems at the time of product usage

In fairness to Pepperball they have taken some back, and do have a FAQ on the sight for anyone who might have thought to question why it was labeled an SA8 rather than a T8. Though it sounds like they have not made the distinction on the main sight those who had looked into the differences would have found this.

[hitech]

There is really only one thing that matters. An SA8 is NOT a paintball marker, therefore it is NOT allowed on any paintball field. it wouldn't matter if it was made EXACTLY like a T8 with a different name. Only paintball markers are allowed during paintball games, and with good reason.

Yes, an SA8 can probably be used as a paintball marker and be as safe as some existing paintball markers. However, it is not a paintball marker and should never be used in a game. Add to everything that the manufacturer has stated it is not safe and all discussion of using it in a game should end.

Off topic, does anyone know where you can purchase the Fist Strike rounds in the new bulk packaging (100 ct)? Yup, I'm now the proud owner of a T9 with FS conversion kit. I no longer shed vortices.


Added: I hadn't read the post from Tiberius. That kinda settles it, don't ya think.