I don't get it...I really dont.

[cockerpunk]

My mag is as light as the pm6 I just sold, and I have found that every marker requires tuning of one sort or another, be it messing with board settings, or using shims. As for price, I paid about $250 for a ULE mag with ULT'd X-valve. How is that more expensive than the new stuff today (Savvy shopper )? My brother played with it last time we were out; we talked later, and he said that the only problem he has with it, is that it uses batteries...surprised him when I said it was a mech.

how did you get a ULE Xvalve with lvl ten for 250? thats rediculous. seeing as how that gun with a intelli retails for about 475 bucks ... and compared to the electro competition is outdone in just about every catagory ... you can see my point. and in the used market, even at 250 there a plethora of guns that outdo a ULE Xvalved mag.

i don't understand why you guys want to over sell automags. are they amazing - yes. i own several and love shooting them. are they as good as there modern equalents - heck no. sorry. those are the facts of the case.

there is no need to be an apologetic for automags, cockers, pumps or anything. different strokes for different folks, we are the classic car guys, and that is perfectly fine with me. i know that when i walk out onto a feild with an automag, cocker, or pump, i am outgunned. so what is all i have to say about that.

[BigEvil]

i know that when i walk out onto a feild with an automag, cocker, or pump, i am outgunned. so what is all i have to say about that.

I really dont know how that is the case. You are doing something wrong.

[Loguzzzzzz]

I really dont know how that is the case. You are doing something wrong.

QFT

All I know is that the only time I will grab my Cyborg over one of my mags is in a long scenario game where the air is very far away and I don't want to make the long walk.

Other that that there is no other reason I chose anything over my mag.

[BigEvil]

Guess he should have been at TB4. I wonder if anyone who was there thought the same way

[punkncat]

Being "outgunned" is a state of mind. The only time it truly applies is in a tourney setting where you simply cannot lay down a lane the same way. I play scrimmages with my mag, and several guys come out and play pump with everyone else shooting 13.3 in a highly competitive setting...moreso than rec ball.

If you honestly feel like you have to have a marker that can feather up high ROF instantly and blow money downfield, you might consider improving your snapshot.

[tribalman]

usefully fast the electros are a better option. yes, RT mags will cycle faster than most modern high end guns - however, since it's mechanical capping them to keep them legal is a problem. On an electro you simply set the ROF cap and hammer as fast as you want. if a field limit is 12 or 13 you can't legally RT on a mag since you'll likely be blowing past that limit.

there is a field local to me that has an electro only ROF cap. there was a mag on the field that was going RT. i heard it and even asked the ref why he wasn't pulling the guy for shooting too fast. he said, it's mech so if he can pull that fast it's ok.

Being "outgunned" is a state of mind. The only time it truly applies is in a tourney setting where you simply cannot lay down a lane the same way. I play scrimmages with my mag, and several guys come out and play pump with everyone else shooting 13.3 in a highly competitive setting...moreso than rec ball.

If you honestly feel like you have to have a marker that can feather up high ROF instantly and blow money downfield, you might consider improving your snapshot.

haha. last weekend when i went my ion was really crapping out on me. couldn't shoot more than 5bps or the thing would lock up. i still played with it, got people out, even had one of the people i got out say that was the most fun he's had snap shooting against someone in a long time. oh yeah..... i should go see what's up with that thing.

[Frizzle Fry]

Guess he should have been at TB4. I wonder if anyone who was there thought the same way

He can't shoot a lane with his Emag because his level 10 is improperly tuned, so he muffs ever 7th shot. So he's "outgunned".

[cockerpunk]

what are you guys talking about? really?

all im saying is something that you already agreed with. a mag is simply not as high performance a gun as even mid level markers these days, ergo, when talking a mag onto a feild of mid and high end guns, you are outgunned. simple as that. they have as good or better technology in there hands then you do ... you are outgunned.

why are you guys apologetics for your equipment? the simple fact is your mag isn't the best, and has not been for closer to 10 years then 5 years.

so what? why is that fact hard to wrap your head around? thats the reason i love to shoot mags, because they are worse guns. thats the fun of owning and shooting old school guns, they arn't as plug and play as modern stuff. i don't want to shoot a bland and boring gun, i want a gun with personality and poise. THAT is why i shoot mags, cockers, pumps, and the like. take pride in that, don't rationalize it. "oh but on a scuba tank, its faster then an ego!" who the hell cares? cool from a technology standpoint, but totally useless.

apologetics ... i dislike them in all aspects of life. stop being an apologetic for your equipment. take pride in the fact that you enjoy and are effective with less technology.

[Frizzle Fry]

So a high pressure ninja tank tank is a "scuba tank"? I was under the impression that Ninja tank regs were setting the industry standard, and their bottles are... just like any other bottle?

How are you "outgunned"? You've got a competitive rate of fire, simple maintenance (oil, velocity adjustment... and?), solid construction and literally ALL of the "upgrades" available to modern markers as far as detents, feednecks, and ASAs go. Field stripping is simple, parts are cheap and you can get a tournament season and then some out of a parts kit... What does "outgunned" mean? Lighter weight? Better air efficiency? C'mon.

[factoid]

So a high pressure ninja tank tank is a "scuba tank"? I was under the impression that Ninja tank regs were setting the industry standard, and their bottles are... just like any other bottle?

How are you "outgunned"? You've got a competitive rate of fire, simple maintenance (oil, velocity adjustment... and?), solid construction and literally ALL of the "upgrades" available to modern markers as far as detents, feednecks, and ASAs go. Field stripping is simple, parts are cheap and you can get a tournament season and then some out of a parts kit... What does "outgunned" mean? Lighter weight? Better air efficiency? C'mon.

He's referring to a video on youtube where Zak Vetter hooks his RT mag up to a direct input 3000PSI scuba tank with no reg and gets to to RT at something like 34BPS.


I'm not an apologist for my equipment, but I really dont' see how I'm outgunned when I go on the field, but I play woodsball so being able to throw down a lane is not important and my field has a 12bps cap and free air. The only advantage someone with an ego has over me in the woods is that their gun is lighter than mine, so they'll get less tired carrying it around.

The speedball field is a different story, but for me it doesn't matter...I hate playing speed ball. I'm a woods guy through and through.

Sure we're the classic car guys...but when you're on a road with a speed limit does a Ferrari really outpace a Mustang?

[cockerpunk]

So a high pressure ninja tank tank is a "scuba tank"? I was under the impression that Ninja tank regs were setting the industry standard, and their bottles are... just like any other bottle?

How are you "outgunned"? You've got a competitive rate of fire, simple maintenance (oil, velocity adjustment... and?), solid construction and literally ALL of the "upgrades" available to modern markers as far as detents, feednecks, and ASAs go. Field stripping is simple, parts are cheap and you can get a tournament season and then some out of a parts kit... What does "outgunned" mean? Lighter weight? Better air efficiency? C'mon.

we already talked about how a 400 dollar mid level electro is smaller, lighter, faster, easier to control, easier to tune, much more efficent. we already talked about sweetspotting RTs is far more trouble then spending 15 mintues to practice walking the trigger of even a 250 dollar electro (not even gonna mention ramping), we talked about multi-mode and capped systems being easier to work with on electros ...

sorry guys, gun technology has improved in the last 10 years. it just has. at this point in paintball you can have a BETTER then pro level gun from 2003 for less then 500 bucks. you can, i mean that is the cold and simple truth.

i don't get it. thats the title of the thread, i don't get why you need to make excuses to justify your choice of equipment.

so what if its not the best? why is that a bad thing?

it isn't. thats the great thing about these guns, they are more fun becuase they arn't the best. do you see GT340 mustangs trying to road race EvoXs? do you care that the veyron is faster then a 1967 DB3? is a 1923 supercharged bently cooler then then new bently GT?

[cockerpunk]

He's referring to a video on youtube where Zak Vetter hooks his RT mag up to a direct input 3000PSI scuba tank with no reg and gets to to RT at something like 34BPS.


I'm not an apologist for my equipment, but I really dont' see how I'm outgunned when I go on the field, but I play woodsball so being able to throw down a lane is not important and my field has a 12bps cap and free air. The only advantage someone with an ego has over me in the woods is that their gun is lighter than mine, so they'll get less tired carrying it around.

The speedball field is a different story, but for me it doesn't matter...I hate playing speed ball. I'm a woods guy through and through.

Sure we're the classic car guys...but when you're on a road with a speed limit does a Ferrari really outpace a Mustang?

im right with you on that one. im the first to say that you really don't need more then about 8 bps for much, even on a speedball feild.

but that doesn't mean more isn't better. or that factors besides speed arn't equally or more important.

put it this way. i would use the term "outguned" even if we were playing speedball and everyone was capped at 8 bps and i was playing with my emag, and someone else was playing with an ego10. he still has a better gun then me. maybe not faster, certainly not cooler, and probably not even as valuable ... but a better gun.

[Frizzle Fry]

we already talked about how a 400 dollar mid level electro is smaller, lighter, faster, easier to control, easier to tune, much more efficent. we already talked about sweetspotting RTs is far more trouble then spending 15 mintues to practice walking the trigger of even a 250 dollar electro (not even gonna mention ramping), we talked about multi-mode and capped systems being easier to work with on electros ...

Easier to tune? You can't tell me adjusting dwell and input pressure is easier than sliding a ring onto a stick and seeing if it fits (once) and adjusting velocity each day at the field (which you do anyway). Easier to "control"? Not sure I follow you there. Sweetspotting an R/T.. Hardly relevant, as you can't R/T at most fields and events. As for multiple modes, that's irrelevant in almost all recreational situations and most competitive ones... Regardless, electronic automags have multiple modes.

Congrats; you discovered that you can't cap the BPS of a mech marker, unless you cap the loader (UWL, anyone?). Big deal... With an Xmod'ed Emag you can compete in any tournament you want. Hell, at many you'll be fine with stock AGD software.

So far all you've told me is that newer markers (of which I own plenty) are smaller (ish), lighter (ish), and more air efficient... If I can shoot a 4+3 and hopperful on a 68/45 with air to spare, and don't have the forearms of a little girl that'll snap if my marker weighs 3-4oz more than a Geo2, why does it matter? How does that constitute being "outgunned"?

put it this way. i would use the term "outguned" even if we were playing speedball and everyone was capped at 8 bps and i was playing with my emag, and someone else was playing with an ego10. he still has a better gun then me. maybe not faster, certainly not cooler, and probably not even as valuable ... but a better gun.

...how so? Why? How? Based on WHAT?

[cockerpunk]

...how so? Why? How? Based on WHAT?

becuase his gun is lighter, much smaller, more ergonomic, easier to shoot fast, easier on paint (i know you will argue this point, but it is true), easier to setup and tune, better trigger and board ... the list goes on and on and on.

its a better performing paintball gun.

i don't understand how your not grasping this simple concept. the mid to high level guns of today are FAR supirior in every way compared to even the best guns of early 2000s, including the E/X mag.

[going_home]

Be honest. Do you really think you will win this argument in here ? You may as well agree to disagree because its not going to happen.