I don't get it...I really dont.

[teufelhunden]

...how so? Why? How? Based on WHAT?

More accurate, shoots farther, low pressure, eyes, less bounces

[leloup]

Car analogies don't work for paintball. Racing is about who is fastest, and paintball is not speed of shooting (as we see by all the field limits).

No, mags are not "old technology," neither are they "out gunned." Again, my mag is as light (or very close) to modern high ends. As for speed, when tourney fields are capping at 15 or 13, an ULT mag can shoot almost as fast. When I played tourneys, I didn't ramp, and shot as fast as I do with my mag. In addition, during the tourney (we placed first), I switched to my phantom and got the most eliminations from my team. Out gunned is a state of mind, and as far as all the posts I have read, no one but you is apologetic about their mags. We know that they are still relevant, still awesome shooters. Could they use a little more air efficiency, sure, but all fields that I have been to are unlimited air, so it doesn't matter. An ego10 is not a better gun (that is a subjective post, totally biased, as are all our feelings about mags being awesome).

As for only paying $250 for my mag, I am a business man, born and bread (and a degree in it). I only shop deals, and trade when I know I can turn a profit.

[cockerpunk]

Be honest. Do you really think you will win this argument in here ? You may as well agree to disagree because its not going to happen.

tiz true. the AGD religion is strong here. almost as bad as the AKA religion on MCB ...

its just silly to me. mags, cockers, love them. but i don't love them becuase they are any better then any other gun, i love them because they are worse then every other gun. its there imperfections that makes me love them. the near perfection of modern guns is boring. i want something with a little character, a little penache, some zest or spice to it. thats why i do youtube shows on osolating barrel guns, and guns that have 45 millisecond dwells ... thats why i like these guns. thats why i enjoy playing with these guns too. nothing more fun then blasting away with a rainmaker, so loud that no one within 15 feet can hear anything ... thats fun!

[Frizzle Fry]

More accurate, shoots farther, low pressure, eyes, less bounces

Hey hey hey hey, they are actually operating at a lower pressure

Well. Input pressure.

[Frizzle Fry]

thats why i do youtube shows

...they're "shows" now?

[Spider-TW]

what are you guys talking about? really?

all im saying is something that you already agreed with. a mag is simply not as high performance a gun as even mid level markers these days, ergo, when talking a mag onto a feild of mid and high end guns, you are outgunned. simple as that. they have as good or better technology in there hands then you do ... you are outgunned.

why are you guys apologetics for your equipment? the simple fact is your mag isn't the best, and has not been for closer to 10 years then 5 years.

so what? why is that fact hard to wrap your head around? thats the reason i love to shoot mags, because they are worse guns. thats the fun of owning and shooting old school guns, they arn't as plug and play as modern stuff. i don't want to shoot a bland and boring gun, i want a gun with personality and poise. THAT is why i shoot mags, cockers, pumps, and the like. take pride in that, don't rationalize it. "oh but on a scuba tank, its faster then an ego!" who the hell cares? cool from a technology standpoint, but totally useless.

apologetics ... i dislike them in all aspects of life. stop being an apologetic for your equipment. take pride in the fact that you enjoy and are effective with less technology.

Ok, NOW you sound like an engineer.

I think I know what you're saying, but it doesn't read that way. I think the definitions of levels of performance and better/worse got scrambled up in the conversation long ago.

One thing I still give my mags over my three ~2k5 vintage electros is that I can rely on them more day-to-day, and the RT rig will put out an unsociable amount of paint every time. I may be able to pick up a new lighter electro to do the same thing this year, but I expect more trouble out of it over the next few years. Regulators and seals are keystones of paintball markers, and mags have a damn fine grip on that.

With the market today, manufacturers don't really care if I can rebuild their marker in one or two years, they just need to sell me a new one. However, if that is the lifetime of their product, I won't have the product loyalty you see here, and I would just move on to the booth with the better looking babes.

[cockerpunk]

Car analogies don't work for paintball. Racing is about who is fastest, and paintball is not speed of shooting (as we see by all the field limits).

No, mags are not "old technology," neither are they "out gunned." Again, my mag is as light (or very close) to modern high ends. As for speed, when tourney fields are capping at 15 or 13, an ULT mag can shoot almost as fast. When I played tourneys, I didn't ramp, and shot as fast as I do with my mag. In addition, during the tourney (we placed first), I switched to my phantom and got the most eliminations from my team. Out gunned is a state of mind, and as far as all the posts I have read, no one but you is apologetic about their mags. We know that they are still relevant, still awesome shooters. Could they use a little more air efficiency, sure, but all fields that I have been to are unlimited air, so it doesn't matter. An ego10 is not a better gun (that is a subjective post, totally biased, as are all our feelings about mags being awesome).

As for only paying $250 for my mag, I am a business man, born and bread (and a degree in it). I only shop deals, and trade when I know I can turn a profit.

i never said they were old technology. don't misquote me.

i'd like to see you sustain 15 bps on a ULT mag. in fact, we have a competition on techpb right now about that, i'd love for you to check it out. most electro players can sustain 13+ bps for 10 or more seconds. lets see that ease of shooting fast with an ULTed mag. maybe a pnuemag, but certainly not a ULTed mag.

as for switching to your phantom, congrats. litterally my favorite gun in the world is the phantom. i play with them all the time, on every feild imaginable. they are just great guns. i've played D2 players and teams with one, i've played with only a micro phantom in big games ... they are very fun guns!

i never said mags were not relevent. and i didn't say they weren't awesome shooters. again misquoting me.

the ego10 is a better gun. it might not be your preference for a gun, but in terms of paintball gun performance it is a FAR better gun. the only real subjective nature in that is "cool factor" and we all know that egos are simply not that cool. mags are way cooler then egos, that doesn't mean that egos arn't better guns though.

[cockerpunk]

Ok, NOW you sound like an engineer.

I think I know what you're saying, but it doesn't read that way. I think the definitions of levels of performance and better/worse got scrambled up in the conversation long ago.

One thing I still give my mags over my three ~2k5 vintage electros is that I can rely on them more day-to-day, and the RT rig will put out an unsociable amount of paint every time. I may be able to pick up a new lighter electro to do the same thing this year, but I expect more trouble out of it over the next few years. Regulators and seals are keystones of paintball markers, and mags have a damn fine grip on that.

With the market today, manufacturers don't really care if I can rebuild their marker in one or two years, they just need to sell me a new one. However, if that is the lifetime of their product, I won't have the product loyalty you see here, and I would just move on to the booth with the better looking babes.

bingo ... someone gets it.

your defintaly right on the last paragraph. something like a G3 won't age like a classic mag, not by a long shot!

[leloup]

they are worse then every other gun.

They are different, not worse. I am sure others will agree that mags are tanks. They are more reliable than any "superior" marker out these days. My x-valves never have failed me in a game, while my high end did (which is why I switched to my phantom). Mags are not fragile. I have replaced eyes on two high ends before, purchased new noids, had regs go down and had to order new internals. My mags....a drop of oil and no worries. I think you are buying into the hype of the latest and greatest. They have good marketing, one thing that is definitely superior to mags.

[Frizzle Fry]

the ego10 is a better gun. it might not be your preference for a gun, but in terms of paintball gun performance it is a FAR better gun. the only real subjective nature in that is "cool factor" and we all know that egos are simply not that cool. mags are way cooler then egos, that doesn't mean that egos arn't better guns though.

...Egos aren't cool? I'm sorry, with the ability to drop next years upgrades into last year's model (or into an Etek) and make it perform with the exact same efficiency, kick reduction, etc. why would people sell their Ego9 and buy an Ego10? Why would anyone buy an SL, private label, or custom ano marker? It's ALL about cool factor, with a nearly negligible change in performance (unless weight constitutes performance).

No matter how light your marker gets, you're still going to have a tank on the back and a hopper full of paint on the top (or side, or bottom).

[cockerpunk]

They are different, not worse. I am sure others will agree that mags are tanks. They are more reliable than any "superior" marker out these days. My x-valves never have failed me in a game, while my high end did (which is why I switched to my phantom). Mags are not fragile. I have replaced eyes on two high ends before, purchased new noids, had regs go down and had to order new internals. My mags....a drop of oil and no worries. I think you are buying into the hype of the latest and greatest. They have good marketing, one thing that is definitely superior to mags.

no, im certainly not buying into any hype. i simply can see the paintball world without a dogma clouding my vision.

i never said mags were fragile or unreliable. i would debate with you that modern guns are less reliable though (some certainly are, others arn't), i've seen guns that don't get cleaned for months on end spitting case after case of paint, not breaking a ball the whole time. this is one reason why i dislike modern spool valves, becuase they are pretty unrelaiable compared to mags (why my gearbag is full of mags and not modern spools ). that being said, i have had to order new internals for mags before too. no gun is truly perfect after all.

[cockerpunk]

...Egos aren't cool? I'm sorry, with the ability to drop next years upgrades into last year's model (or into an Etek) and make it perform with the exact same efficiency, kick reduction, etc. why would people sell their Ego9 and buy an Ego10? Why would anyone buy an SL, private label, or custom ano marker? It's ALL about cool factor, with a nearly negligible change in performance (unless weight constitutes performance).

No matter how light your marker gets, you're still going to have a tank on the back and a hopper full of paint on the top (or side, or bottom).

now your just trolling for a fight. cool is a subjective term, that was the ENTIRE point of that sentence. you find different things cooler then i do, and we probably don't agree with the mass market in paintball's defitnion of cool. again ... so what?

i personally don't think egos are very cool. they are amazing guns, but they arn't cool to me. i certainly find a lvl 5 mag much cooler, even a old school high rise feed classic RT is much cooler then an ego. i thought being a AGD religious man you would agree, but i guess you would rather fight about stupid **** then have a real conversation.

reported, and i think im done responding to your stupidity.

[Spider-TW]

I'll take the race analogy as well.

Purpose built.

What do I get with my extra modes? The most I get personally is limited to 12 or 13 bps.

What do I get with less weight? I might switch hands faster, but I lean with my body and sometimes I like some marker weight in the back of the field.

What do I get with efficiency? A third of a tank of air that I still need to put air into. And how much faster can you move with your light marker when you add the extra paint to your body?

If you gave me a Ferrari, I would be handicapped in my daily driving. My local streets are full of bumps, holes and manway covers. I would either putt along or tear it up. The Ferrari can't even go some of the places I take my ancient pickup. Even a cheap low end sports car couldn't make it.

Is "better"? Sure. Can I use it? Not really (someone can).

The design criteria for mags was different from new markers, and to me that is what gives them their uniqueness.

I thought the Ion could have been a classic electro design if SP had played it out in a manner similar to the mag and the autococker, but that wasn't their nature. With a little more modularity and reliability, it could have been bigger (but maybe not as cheap).

[Frizzle Fry]

reported, and i think im done responding to your stupidity.

Reported for what?

Call it stupidity if you like, but if you think the merit of a marker is found solely in its weight and efficiency, then you have very little understanding of what is important in a paintball gun. You can tout the alleged "user friendliness" (I'm guessing thats what you mean when you say "plug and play" and refer to "control") but when you compare the process of tuning, say, an Etek and tuning a Level10 ULE, you'll see that the methods are completely different but they take about the same amount of time. Durability and extremely low maintenance are the reason that relic Tippmanns and Classic mags are on the field while 4+ year old midrange electros lay forgotten in closets. It's the same reason you'll see DM4s and 5PEED Angels, for that matter.

I'm not saying that Automags are the best marker made, or that they're necessarily superior to newer markers, but merely that you're not at ANY sort of disadvantage playing with an Xmag versus an Ego10 unless you plan to shoot 8+ pods in one game or don't have the stamina to carry something that weighs mere ounces more. Were not all rabid fanboys here, certainly not what you've made us out to be... We all own other markers and shoot them regularly. I've got plenty of markers that I prefer to my mags.

Different markers have different merits. You can talk about one being more ergonomic than another, but that's completely in the eye of the beholder... Some people like heavier, some lighter. Some like a 90* frame, others a 45. Plenty of guys hate Minis for have a cramped foregrip... Does that make it a better or worse marker? Does it really matter?

I'll meet you half way and say that, yes, a classic mag is less likely to keep up with a modern midrange electro in a competitive situation, but that's as far as I'll go. I just can't understand why you can't point to anything other than weight and air efficiency with your superiority argument. The tuning, ease on paint, and "plug 'n play" arguments are bunk when you compare an Ego and a similarly outfitted R/T ULE.

[punkncat]

The only "issue" I have with a mag at all is their inefficency. Aside from that, they are better quality build than anything on the market, and are more consistant that most.

The whole thing is, that what marker is the best, or better, is open to opinionated interpretation.