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I completely disagree with this thinking, how exactly is changing detents a risk? Were talking about a doohickey that keeps a paintball from rolling down the barrel. There are many ways to to solve this problem and the engineering behind achieving the goal is not rocket science. :)Comment
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Plus, with the movable breech of the 2K9, the standard PTP detent wouldn't have worked anyway. It is a poor excuse to blame the masses for failure to do some math on placement of a detent of YOUR PRODUCT. The masses didn't mill the guns, PTP did... Or is that an innovation? You screw up, but blame the people that were buying your products?Comment
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Hypothetical scenario. The machinist designs new detents in a new body. Everything is to spec, they run a couple hundred balls through, everything checks out and it goes to production.
Owners get the markers, get all the parts, maybe get some custom milling done on the frame to better blend with the body, then dump a couple hundred into an ano complex and unique enough that it is impossible to get anything rematched.
Immediately, after long term use the detents are failing. Maybe pieces are getting ripped out and shooting out the barrel. Maybe they have rollouts because the machinist didn't test enough variation in the paint. But it's determined the machinist's design is flawed. Either by placement or because they are drilled/milled too deep.
So what is the machinist responsible for? The cost of the body or the whole project?
Most of the time this doesn't happen, but PTP is not the only one to screw up a small volume production run.
I'm by no means defending them, they got themselves their reputation because they played fast and loose with the risk, and weren't anywhere near solvent enough to pay to fix it.Last edited by boo; 04-08-2016, 10:20 PM.Comment
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Who designed it, is at fault. They failed to check the numbers. They cailed to check on the first body milled to make sure that it is within spec. The machinist is only responsible for his job. The designer is reaponsible for listening to what possible additions the people BUYING THEM are asking for. It is not the people's fault for wanting something that the deaig er can not do. The deaigner ahould know hos or her own's capabilities in the design. If they don't know how to, then either figure it out or ask someone who has been there before them for help. It is that simple.
But more so, is not PTP's fault at the design. I actually like the looks of the 2K9. It had potential. Even the flawed velocity issues were something not seen before. Yet, how they failed to address the failed bodies, how people did not get reimbursement for bodies undelivered, or how people were promised on having things made right & nothing being done for YEARS. That is the problem.
You want innovation, try promising and delivering on a product. So the past accomplishment does nothing in bringing new people to the fold. No one buys a new car(say a Ford) cause 15 years ago, they did the Ford GT and that was good. No, its called "what jave you done for me lately". That is how you grow, how you stay relevant, how you stay in business. You should never look to the past, when you should be looking to the future.Comment
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It's obvious who's at fault, but what are they responsible for? Replacing the body, refunding the money, or paying to redo the run correctly and paying for the ano again?
That's the debatable question, because with any of those options there are still going to be unhappy people.
People always ***** about the Empire monopoly, but they have the best customer service in the industry.
That's the difference, and that's why from a business standpoint it doesn't make sense to be a niche manufacturer. You don't have the resources to make it right when something goes wrong. So you either go small, play it safe and just put a new spin on proven designs. Or you go big, do something new, and eventually the gambling catches up with you. You either go into debt making it right or you give up and disappear. Or worse, go double or nothing and burn twice as many people.
Intentions are always good, and I tip my hat to the people that love the sport or the products so much they stick their neck out there. But, when stuff goes wrong I'll probably be among the mob that says "you shoulda known better".
It's business 101, a company should be judged not on what they do right, but when they do something wrong how they fix it. On the 2k9 PTP failed miserably. But over their many years they would of had to have other mistakes that we don't remember anymore. Because in their heyday they had the resources to make it right.
I think your missing the point of what I'm arguing, I'm not defensing PTP, I'm saying companies need to know how much to bite off before they chew.
If anything I respect AGD more because they haven't come out with a new revolutionary design for a new marker. With their current resources it would be a disaster they couldn't fix. They are reputable and business savvy enough to know not to take that jump.Last edited by boo; 04-09-2016, 11:42 AM.Comment
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I have been searching for something better than the kingmann spider elbow. Hope the armson pro is it. Do you know if the agd minimag power feed will do best with 1" or with 7/8ths?yes, i could have purchased something new for the same money.Comment
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yes, i could have purchased something new for the same money.Comment
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Never tried their barrel kit.
XMTerror made some carbon fiber bodies, the breach was still aluminum to house the feedneck and ring/c-clip.Comment
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