PTP Fascination

[BigEvil]

I will say, I LOVED all the money I made fixing them

[Sk8ermog]

Lol BigEvil. I do tend to gravitate toward PTP posts. Doesn't help that I do mass searches online for anything PTP related.

Sounds like I am one of the rare few who has really never had any major issues with PTP products.

[going_home]

I'm still waiting for the $15 dollar refund for the proprietary sear pin.

And the free T shirt, and I paid $20 for an extra T shirt.......

God forgives and forgets, I forgave them but I can't forget it.

[luke]

I'm still waiting for the $15 dollar refund for the proprietary sear pin.

And the free T shirt, and I paid $20 for an extra T shirt.......

ditto

[zondo]

The 2K9s are basically a stylish slug body. There is enough meat to make it whatever you want if you're skilled or want to spend the money. The only issue I had with my 2K9 was the velocity issue and Luke fixed that. I know BigEvil keeps telling me the detents are in the wrong spot too. When I had it, I didn't get any feed problems despite that.

I may pick it back up this summer

[MAGgot]

The Micromag offered a solution for all of the Automag's downsides: lighter aluminum body w/ integrated rail, cocker threads, improved detents.
Add to that the finest factory ano options ever offered on any gun.

[JKR]

I own one black Micromag and have zero issues with it. Why did I want it to begin with? Compact, lightweight body with interchangeable barrels with a more old school cool factor that some run of the mill ULE body.

[kutter]

It must be nostalgia for me. My Micro was my first truly good gun. I was not crazy about the single trigger, but an Intelliframe fixed that. Mine performed flawlessly until the day I put it into storage. I took it out 8 years later and it needed a rebuild kit, now it is just as happy as always. As I think someone said, it was a ULE before there was a ULE. It is fairly light, really light compared to my SFL. And pretty compact with a tight barrel. I like that fact that its a true mechanical and the RT makes it as competitive as anything else.

[Frizzle Fry]

Why is it that some people are all gaga over any markers by Pro Team Products ?

I just dont get it, the Micromags, the Cockers, why ?

When you get past the anodizing (if the have other than black) they arent much IMHO.

Am I biased because of the 2009 Micromag debacle , or the one that happened over on custom cockers ?

It was EARLY and it was COMMITTED.

PTP was one of the first major, nationwide offerings of full production factory customer markers with MFG approval that I encountered. They were available in shops and catalogs, supported and approved by AGD, WGP, ICD and Sheridan, and they came in cool cuts and colors. Sure, there were custom shops doing similar things but not full production and not always widely available. In a world where everything was black, or silver, or one solid color, their offerings made a difference and really jumped out at buyers - there wasn't a PBN list of 20+ anodizers to easily choose from then, either. Most of their markers had functional upgrades as well as cosmetic ones, and they kept refining their platforms for a solid decade with multiple generations of markers, each an improvement over the last.

The MM2K9 thing was a fiasco; I was there too, but it doesn't really reflect who PTP was when they were REALLY in the paintball business from the early 90s to the early 2000s...

Imagine if Pontiac or Oldsmobile came back from the dead to make a one-off product based entirely on customer requests, but didn't really have the means to produce it anymore and the car turned out terrible - It might suck for customers, but it shouldn't reflect on their prior years of revolutionary developments and classic vehicles.

[Nobody]

It was EARLY and it was COMMITTED.

PTP was one of the first major, nationwide offerings of full production factory customer markers with MFG approval that I encountered. They were available in shops and catalogs, supported and approved by AGD, WGP, ICD and Sheridan, and they came in cool cuts and colors. Sure, there were custom shops doing similar things but not full production and not always widely available. In a world where everything was black, or silver, or one solid color, their offerings made a difference and really jumped out at buyers - there wasn't a PBN list of 20+ anodizers to easily choose from then, either. Most of their markers had functional upgrades as well as cosmetic ones, and they kept refining their platforms for a solid decade with multiple generations of markers, each an improvement over the last.

The MM2K9 thing was a fiasco; I was there too, but it doesn't really reflect who PTP was when they were REALLY in the paintball business from the early 90s to the early 2000s...

Imagine if Pontiac or Oldsmobile came back from the dead to make a one-off product based entirely on customer requests, but didn't really have the means to produce it anymore and the car turned out terrible - It might suck for customers, but it shouldn't reflect on their prior years of revolutionary developments and classic vehicles.

PTP never had anything to do with ICD.

Though they were one of the first companies to offer options for guns(namely the automag) that had little to no options, they were not the best when other options came about. Its easy to corner the market when you are alone in the field. It is sorely a different story when new and possibly better quality products come about from other companies...

And please tell me, what revolutionary things did PTP do? Ocfering a different body/setup than what AGD had, yes nice, but if you do not adjust to the market trends & what players need, you will die in the products that whither on the shelves.

[JKR]

... but if you do not adjust to the market trends & what players need, you will die in the products that whither on the shelves.

Pretty much the same thing that has been said of AGD.

Unfortunately, what players need and what they want are two different things. In an industry whose backbone of customers are young men 14-20 years old, it was far too easy to poison the water hole for the various marketing groups. Faster, lighter, faster, add some bling, make it faster, more efficient, make it faster...and boom! Now we live in a time where the industry as a whole is on life support compared to the late 1990s and early 2000s and everyone suffers. Well, except some of those niche shops (Palmers, CCM) who specialize and customize and often go the opposite direction of industry conventional wisdom.

[GoatBoy]

Pretty much the same thing that has been said of AGD.

Unfortunately, what players need and what they want are two different things. In an industry whose backbone of customers are young men 14-20 years old, it was far too easy to poison the water hole for the various marketing groups. Faster, lighter, faster, add some bling, make it faster, more efficient, make it faster...and boom! Now we live in a time where the industry as a whole is on life support compared to the late 1990s and early 2000s and everyone suffers. Well, except some of those niche shops (Palmers, CCM) who specialize and customize and often go the opposite direction of industry conventional wisdom.

So this preoccupation with "bestest factory anno job", which appears to be a dominant theme here -- does that fall under what players "want", or what players "need"?

[going_home]

Imagine if Pontiac or Oldsmobile came back from the dead to make a one-off product based entirely on customer requests, but didn't really have the means to produce it anymore and the car turned out terrible - It might suck for customers, but it shouldn't reflect on their prior years of revolutionary developments and classic vehicles.

But thats the point, it absolutely does reflect on everything PTP.

[Nobody]

Pretty much the same thing that has been said of AGD.

Unfortunately, what players need and what they want are two different things. In an industry whose backbone of customers are young men 14-20 years old, it was far too easy to poison the water hole for the various marketing groups. Faster, lighter, faster, add some bling, make it faster, more efficient, make it faster...and boom! Now we live in a time where the industry as a whole is on life support compared to the late 1990s and early 2000s and everyone suffers. Well, except some of those niche shops (Palmers, CCM) who specialize and customize and often go the opposite direction of industry conventional wisdom.

Actually, yes. AGD had admitted so much, with the late introduction of the ULE body, or more importantly, a threaded body. It is surmised that there are still thousands of powerfeed bodies in storage(or have been recycled-if they could be or scraped-more likely) that were bought for that cost AGD more than just money.

Palmers is a mere shadow of itself. What was the last thing they had done, the lance? Ot exactly taking the market by storm. CCM(you shouldn't have gone there) is ****. They "reinvented" the pump scene, so you have overpriced production guns that could be made for 1/4th the price of their guns. Its not a custom shop, it just gives options on anno, but their barrels and regs suck. The SR1 was a failure and the JL2 or whatever did not sell. I think there where other problems, but i would needed to have cared to pay attention to it.

A better view is what Inception Designs is doing. As they are a small shop, they are putting out great products with fantasic customer service. But the key is, they are not putting out products for the flavor of the month or fanboy market. They are looking at the diehards and lifers that keep the sport going. That is where the market is or needs to be. Put out a product that people want, for a good price and then see what the people are asking for. If you dictate what you will make, then people will go elsewhere.

So no, you are wrong.

[GoatBoy]

Actually, yes. AGD had admitted so much, with the late introduction of the ULE body, or more importantly, a threaded body. It is surmised that there are still thousands of powerfeed bodies in storage(or have been recycled-if they could be or scraped-more likely) that were bought for that cost AGD more than just money.

Wait wait what? I'm not sure if I misunderstood your sentence structure... but what?!

Cuz you know, those stainless bodies are more valuable to me than the ULE ones. That would be a freaking shame if they were scrapped.

Palmers is a mere shadow of itself. What was the last thing they had done, the lance? Ot exactly taking the market by storm. CCM(you shouldn't have gone there) is ****. They "reinvented" the pump scene, so you have overpriced production guns that could be made for 1/4th the price of their guns. Its not a custom shop, it just gives options on anno, but their barrels and regs suck. The SR1 was a failure and the JL2 or whatever did not sell. I think there where other problems, but i would needed to have cared to pay attention to it.

I LOL'd. Even I decided not to touch that one.

But I'm not above dogpiling on top.

Palmers: The $1224 Auto-Lance. Exactly what players want AND need!

CCM: The $1199 SSR. Bolt action, BECAUSE REASON!

CCM has flatly stated IT DOES NOT DO CUSTOM WORK.


Some of you... I swear it sounds like you took oaths of fealty to these manufacturers. This is going beyond corn dog territory. I will have to rethink the analogy.