Aluminum Classic Valve

[JKR]

Back to the topic, I don't see AGD popping out an aluminum Classic valve. The valve is, after all, just the valve. The entire ecosystem around the valve has languished, and rehashing the valve while still pushing the same warmed-over ecosystem would be a amazing exercise in futility.

Lightweight bodies with expanding anno options, new frames and triggers, an array of factory available feednecks...yeah, the ecosystem is languishing alright! smh

So many haters.

If we wanted a company that redefines itself each year by releasing new milling, we wouldn't be fans of AGD!

[Nobody]

Lightweight bodies with expanding anno options, new frames and triggers, an array of factory available feednecks...yeah, the ecosystem is languishing alright! smh

So many haters.

If we wanted a company that redefines itself each year by releasing new milling, we wouldn't be fans of AGD!

Yet, the numbers that the private sector(XMT, Magnus, Tuna, KAM, Luke) are doing (20 bodies here, 50 frames there, 12 forgrips, etc) is NOT thriving. This is life support, not life. If you care to see at a field who is buying new guns, what they are using, that is life. If you look at PE, for example, they are updating, changing, improving their lineup of guns because they are selling, they are getting feedback from the players in what they want, what they need. Regardless of where they are played at, PE is looking at the future, not to the past. AO can't even do half the pre-orders to completion, do 100 parts of ANYTHING, or get someone to actually agree on any 1 part that is actually NEEDED.

I love mags, but if AGD wants to grow and live, it will need 1 person to make decisions on a path, 1 person to fund it, and 1 person to make the parts.

And before any of you even think i don't know what i am talking about, i see what Inception Designs is doing and they are pushing into the market, making a name for themselves and trying to put their mark on the paintball world. AO, can't even agree on what they like for a foregrip...

[BigEvil]

Lightweight bodies with expanding anno options, new frames and triggers, an array of factory available feednecks...yeah, the ecosystem is languishing alright! smh

So many haters.

If we wanted a company that redefines itself each year by releasing new milling, we wouldn't be fans of AGD!

Or we can just shoot cockers. Nothing like that going on with that platform right ?

[BigEvil]

And before any of you even think i don't know what i am talking about, i see what Inception Designs is doing and they are pushing into the market, making a name for themselves and trying to put their mark on the paintball world. AO, can't even agree on what they like for a foregrip...

AO is no indication of anything, even in it's heyday was a poor barometer of the retail market.

[JKR]

Yet, the numbers that the private sector(XMT, Magnus, Tuna, KAM, Luke) are doing (20 bodies here, 50 frames there, 12 forgrips, etc) is NOT thriving. This is life support, not life. If you care to see at a field who is buying new guns, what they are using, that is life. If you look at PE, for example, they are updating, changing, improving their lineup of guns because they are selling, they are getting feedback from the players in what they want, what they need. Regardless of where they are played at, PE is looking at the future, not to the past. AO can't even do half the pre-orders to completion, do 100 parts of ANYTHING, or get someone to actually agree on any 1 part that is actually NEEDED.

I love mags, but if AGD wants to grow and live, it will need 1 person to make decisions on a path, 1 person to fund it, and 1 person to make the parts.

And before any of you even think i don't know what i am talking about, i see what Inception Designs is doing and they are pushing into the market, making a name for themselves and trying to put their mark on the paintball world. AO, can't even agree on what they like for a foregrip...

PE isn't allowing the aftermarket to dictate their business plans. That is one important difference in your analysis. Everyone loves to see the cool stuff from Luke, XMT, and the rest but the end result is a built 'Mag over a grand. Life sustaining, volume sales are not going to come from a 'Mag with a price tag of over $1000...not in today's economy. AGD needs to focus on 'Mags in the $500-$600 range to keep the lights on and throw in some high end stuff along the way to generate interest. I don't have a sales analysis of the PE company but I'll bet their bread and butter is the market in the $500-$750 (and under) range.

[GoatBoy]

Lightweight bodies with expanding anno options, new frames and triggers, an array of factory available feednecks...yeah, the ecosystem is languishing alright! smh

So many haters.

If we wanted a company that redefines itself each year by releasing new milling, we wouldn't be fans of AGD!

That's actually my point. You have managed to somehow in one sentence compile a list entirely composed of useless rehash items.

Do you think I'm talking about "new milling"? Is that what you took from my statement?

PE isn't allowing the aftermarket to dictate their business plans. That is one important difference in your analysis. Everyone loves to see the cool stuff from Luke, XMT, and the rest but the end result is a built 'Mag over a grand. Life sustaining, volume sales are not going to come from a 'Mag with a price tag of over $1000...not in today's economy. AGD needs to focus on 'Mags in the $500-$600 range to keep the lights on and throw in some high end stuff along the way to generate interest. I don't have a sales analysis of the PE company but I'll bet their bread and butter is the market in the $500-$750 (and under) range.

It's a good bet that anything that AGD produces now, in 2017, will be priced at late-80s level prices. Except they will adjust upward for inflation. They will price themselves out of the market, then complain that there's no market.

Why?

Because history repeats itself.

[going_home]

Have you seen the prices of the new stuff Tim has been working on ?

Its not low end pricing by any means, but it seems competitive at least.

http://www.airgundesigns.com/category-s/107.htm

[1985phenom]

My .02 (never played in a tournament, but started playing in late 90s)

I believe the Genesis of this rule/school of thought starts back when electros started becoming mainstays in tournaments. ROF caps and the like are obviously able to be regulated. AGD cornered the market on performance (high) mechs that could achieve uncappable ROF. Everyone can remember playing with/against guys who had a cheater or workaround on their marker to achieve a higher rate of fire in those days.

^this speaks to the letter of the law, no matter how misinformed it is and all the talk about force returning the trigger, and one pull one shot, etc

Now to the spirit of the law. I would imagine the rules committee wants non-RT/runaway mechs. This is easily achievable. And should be an easy clarification. Talk about reviving a segment of the market and some old rivalries.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Sandman]

It's simple,

I build mags all the time that DO NOT BOUNCE. You can try as hard as you want to short pull, slight pull, tease pull....however you want and the gun will not bounce.

Bounce is created by setting the firing point as close as possible to the ready to fire point. Most guns can be set-up to do it. I can make a cocker bounce fire too. It just doesn't work as well because the gun is not capable of returning to the ready to fire state as fast as a mag.

The bottom line is there is no reason to ban mags other than "they"(those making the rules and running the league) are most likely Cocker fans and don't want to compete against a superior mechanical gun.

I've tried contacting the NXL to discuss this. No one bothers to respond. No ones even contacted AGD at all about the league. The Automag is only the most iconic gun besides the Autococker that started the whole competitive sport side of paintball. And these jokers ban them for no reason at all, other than they have no understanding of the tech and don't want to get beat by them.

I guess we'll have to start a competing league.

[JKR]

That's actually my point. You have managed to somehow in one sentence compile a list entirely composed of useless rehash items.

Do you think I'm talking about "new milling"? Is that what you took from my statement?




It's a good bet that anything that AGD produces now, in 2017, will be priced at late-80s level prices. Except they will adjust upward for inflation. They will price themselves out of the market, then complain that there's no market.

Why?

Because history repeats itself.

If not new milling, then what? AGD has the best performing mechanical semi around...very little room for improvement - maybe some efficiency improvements. It is extremely durable and robust and performs better than any other mechanical semi.

Lighter weight? That is subjective as there are many that prefer mechanical 'guns and a bit of nicely balanced weight to said 'guns.

So, the guts are solid...that leaves trigger frames, triggers, lightened bodies, and better feednecks. Improvements or options that customers want in these items are hardly "useless".

Honestly, other than aesthetics, what are you talking about?

Pricing? Well, you get what you pay for. If you want to support American industry as opposed to Chinese made battery powered options, that's up to you.

Not sure your particular dislike for AGD but you might want to consider hanging out in a different corner of the electronic world, just in case you missed the familiar name within the web address.

[going_home]

He shoots mags.

Came to Tunaball a few years back too.

[Loguzzzzzz]

Believe it or not this is really not the center of AGD. There a whole other culture of mag users that buy from the AGD store not even knowing this website exist! If you think that Tom, Dave or now Tim were/are only selling to the fine members of AO you are severely under rating this reach of the AutoMag!

[captian pinky]

It's simple,

I build mags all the time that DO NOT BOUNCE. You can try as hard as you want to short pull, slight pull, tease pull....however you want and the gun will not bounce.

Bounce is created by setting the firing point as close as possible to the ready to fire point. Most guns can be set-up to do it. I can make a cocker bounce fire too. It just doesn't work as well because the gun is not capable of returning to the ready to fire state as fast as a mag.

The bottom line is there is no reason to ban mags other than "they"(those making the rules and running the league) are most likely Cocker fans and don't want to compete against a superior mechanical gun.

I've tried contacting the NXL to discuss this. No one bothers to respond. No ones even contacted AGD at all about the league. The Automag is only the most iconic gun besides the Autococker that started the whole competitive sport side of paintball. And these jokers ban them for no reason at all, other than they have no understanding of the tech and don't want to get beat by them.

I guess we'll have to start a competing league.

there were many ways they could have set a bps cap and they didnt even bother.

500 balls per player
gravity feed or no force feed hoppers
rting penalties

but instead they chose to cut off a whole chunk of the people that would have/wanted to enter/travel play and give them money.

While i see a big surge in people wanting to shoot mech's again, i wish the industry wasn't so one sided.

[going_home]

Did they exclude Automags ?

Is it official ?

[blackdeath1k]

there were many ways they could have set a bps cap and they didnt even bother.

500 balls per player
gravity feed or no force feed hoppers
rting penalties

but instead they chose to cut off a whole chunk of the people that would have/wanted to enter/travel play and give them money.

While i see a big surge in people wanting to shoot mech's again, i wish the industry wasn't so one sided.

It's almost like the tournament side of the industry blacklisted AGD after the original RT was released and they have never allowed the thought of reconsidering there stance on the subject.