Hybrid RTP Rails

[luke]

I was merely asking a question to the general public about plunger adjustment frequency, for my own knowledge.

I would say likely never unless someone messed with it, but that's a guess. Tunaman and Big Evil are the tech guys so they would be the ones to answer that.

[Loguzzzzzz]

I would say likely never unless someone messed with it, but that's a guess. Tunaman and Big Evil are the tech guys so they would be the ones to answer that.

They should NEVER need adjustment but over time the Locktite and the lock nut may come loose and the vibration from shooting the gun may cause a little slippage, or as I stated above should the Emag owner want to switch rails. Let's face it, that is half the fun of owning a Mag, the modular nature (of them) and switching the look every once in a while.

The hardest part about this adjustment is owning a set of digital calipers (which not everyone may have).

[luke]

They should NEVER need adjustment but over time the Locktite and the lock nut may come loose and the vibration from shooting the gun may cause a little slippage, or as I stated above should the Emag owner want to switch rails. Let's face it, that is half the fun of owning a Mag, the modular nature (of them) and switching the look every once in a while.

The hardest part about this adjustment is owning a set of digital calipers (which not everyone may have).

This is obviously a builders choice, you can choose to make the adjustment and have access to all the new rails designs or not, I cant put it any plainer than that. Trying to start an argument about adjusting the solenoid plunger is just childish. This rail is obviously not for you, and that's okay.

[Loguzzzzzz]

This is obviously a builders choice, you can choose to make the adjustment and have access to all the new rails designs or not, I cant put it any plainer than that. Trying to start an argument about adjusting the solenoid plunger is just childish. This rail is obviously not for you, and that's okay.

How is this trying to start an argument. I was merely answering mobsterboy's question... I even gave an example how they could come out of adjustment during regular usage.

Unless I read your reply incorrectly you seem to be a little defensive.

Personally I rarely change the look of my Mags I usually just build another one. Like most I have complete mags (in parts) on my bench at any time. Some may not have that option though.

[luke]

How is this trying to start an argument.

That statement was also based on your previous comment.

Unless I read your reply incorrectly you seem to be a little defensive.

Defensive? Definitely not, I guess you missed the

[Nobody]

That argument makes no sense, if you switch to a Hybrid rail you adjust the solenoid plunger once and your done. Why in the world would you insinuate other wise?

The party trick of the mag is 2 screws and the gun comes apart. Allowing the user to switch out bodies, rails, frames, foregrips, whatever. It was not a design feature but people have taken that to be able to have 1 gun but a pump rail and/or emag lowers where the parts are swapped out as needed. Small minority, but people will do this.

Also, by being in spec, that means people can swap parts around as they wish. I am sure that most people will forget to adjust the plunger length, months or years down the line, as well as on the second hand market thus causing problems. Who wants that?

This is the exact reason I have no patience for you and have no desire to have a dialog with you. You argue points with no merit. You try to pick apart every decision I make in regard design and engineering. You have it in your mind that I somehow need to clarify everything I do with you, like its your right somehow. This idea that I'm looking to have my ego stroked is absurd and something you say just to get a rise out of me. Based on your track record with me, I've come to the conclusion that all you really want is to stir the pot. Throwing insults back and forth is very easy, practicing restraint is the hard part.

So either i am annoying or maybe i am correct? If you put up to the masses, to the forun what people will want, then do not blame the answers. If people question why you do somethign, do not blame the people if they find fault with how you designed something. Its you, by putting up, asking for input, that does not mean that 1 person gets listened to, while another is ignored. By you using this forum as a sounding board, you should not cherry pick the things you like. I play devil's advocate. Hopefully seeing a potential problem that you did not think of, but using years of experience, education and yes, opinion.

If i wanted to stur the pot, there are far better ways of doing it. I would hound you in every post, not where i have questions.

Man that's conceded to say the least and there in lies the problem between us. It honestly doesn't matter to me if you like my parts or not, I know a great deal of people don't, and that's okay. I've said this to you before, but I'll say it again, I design and manufacture parts I like and if I'm lucky there are other people out there with similar tastes. This is not a corporate business model where the target is the largest customer base possible, that has never been my motivation. Buy my parts or not, I'm good with it either way.

So you are not a manufacturer? You do not have a business(ok, this may be a garage shop, no business license, or things like that) and do not make any money(not questioning profit margins here, you make what you make, no question on that) on anything that you do? So i guess you should take down your like, remove your manufacturer's banner and the like.

Your ego, by only making what you like, means you are ignoring what the market wants, what could or would sell, only cause you don't like something. That is well, stupid. Who doesn't want to not only make money, but have that pay for your hobbies? Why not look at something that would sell, or what people want so that that could fund your side projects, knowing that their is an income from part A, so that part B can take the time to grow and flurish on its own?

[Nobody]

You really have to ask yourself what the argument is actually about, does Nobody really want me to discontinue the Hybrid Rail line and dump 100 slug rails in the recycle bin all over a simple adjustment? Bottom line is the plunger adjustment argument is just silly and little more than pot stirring and most everyone here knows it.

Quick statement. You never listened to me before why would i tell you to dump 100 rails?

But that os not the point. Everything made for a mag is based on a certain spec. By not using thst it becomes problematic when people swap around parts. Just because you don't move parts around, does not mean the public sticks to the same idea. Stay in spec, and no problems will occur.

If you look at the Automag platform as a whole and compare the plunger adjustment in that equation, it's no more difficult than anything else associated with Auto Mags, NEW yes, but not difficult. On a scale of 1-10 (10 being the hardest) the solenoid plunger adjustment would be a 2, and it gets that because you need a set of calipers.

Again, i do not need to adjust much of anything on a mag. Sure, L10s, ULE triggers do have adjustment, but none of them require digital calipers for them. Swapping a shim in or out, changing an oring are far easier than requiring a specific tool to adjust.

Tunaman, AGD and myself are aware of the adjustment, and I'm sure Big Evil will get wind of it soon enough. So the 3 big Automag tech guys (Tunaman, AGD, BigEvil) can easily handle this adjustment and I'll do the adjustment for free with the purchase of a Hybrid rail. Quit frankly I would wager that the biggest percentage of AOers can handle this without blinking an eye.

So will you be handling this adjustment under warranty? How long would you continue to do this? What about 2nd hand users getting yiur rails through a part out buy? Yeah, you think its easy but so was staying in spec with this.

This reminds me of thd MM9K fiasco. That was out of spec by a few thousandths and look were it got them...

[luke]

Spending any more time on this is fruitless, I've made my points and quite frankly it really doesn't matter if we see eye to eye. Argue it from any angle and it wont change anything, the Hybrid rail is a reality and I'm not changing it because of the Emag. Fact is Emag parts are by far the slowest moving ones I stock. They have been on the discontinue list for probably two years, when my current inventory is gone, that's it. Its very unlikely I will design or manufacture anything else for it, at least Emag rails will be available for those that dont have a problem adjusting the plunger.

I'm a one man band and these discussions just go in an endless circle and only robs me of time from doing any other work. I already spend a huge amount of my time corresponding with my customers across several boards, emails and private messages. I'm available to them (mostly) 7 days a week and all waking hours, I never clock out. I'm not complaining, just making a point that my time is better spent on other things. You accuse of cherry picking who I talk to here, which is actually true because those guys are buying parts and building markers. Most of which is being discussed privately so what you see is a very small snip-it of what's going on. So yea, I'm definitely playing favorites here. Some, if not most of these guys spend a lot of money on my stuff and deserve to be heard, so I try my best to take care of them.

[Nobody]

And if you build stuff that more than a "hand full" want, then more people would buy. Make something that would sell and people would buy it. Make something in spec, hence no special mods(however simple they may be) need to be taken and thus universal. Make something that everyone needs and then you profit. Very simple math, something i have been telling you for a while now. Amd make something i want and i would give you my money...

[JimBobFett]

I dont get what the emag deal is, but I thought I'd dump this here: Oh, BTW, I bought 3 and I'm buying 3 more this week of the newer designs. I thought part of the point was that this platform makes it easier to do small batches... 4 here, 8 there, etc. Kinda like sluggo bodies: use the same base to make kartas, dallaras, etc.
20181008_211439.jpg

[mobsterboy]

I dont get what the emag deal is, but I thought I'd dump this here: Oh, BTW, I bought 3 and I'm buying 3 more this week of the newer designs. I thought part of the point was that this platform makes it easier to do small batches... 4 here, 8 there, etc. Kinda like sluggo bodies: use the same base to make kartas, dallaras, etc.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]100236[/ATTACH]

Holy Thumbscrew gap, Batman!

[luke]

Well I've always had slug rails but before I had to stock Automag and RTPro slug rails. Plus some AM designs were not available in the RTP version because they just looked bad. The Hybrid platform solves inventory and design issues all in one, and they just look better than both AM and RTP rails.

Your correct about the small batch too, I have streamlined rail production to the point I can offer a bunch of different designs and keep only a few of each on the shelf (I was doing this before too). When I run out or run low I can pull slug rails and replenish the supply a little at a time. This is part of the reason that makes it difficult to offer anodized parts. I would have to commit to a few designs and hope they sell, this way I can just make whatever is selling the best at the time (it constantly changes). It takes the guess work out of the equation and allows me to offer options and custom rail designs.

[luke]

Holy Thumbscrew gap, Batman!

I think its just a mock up, the thumb screws do sit flat on that frame, I would wager a dollar there's no rail bushing in that setup.

[JimBobFett]

I think its just a mock up, the thumb screws do sit flat on that frame, I would wager a dollar there's no rail bushing in that setup.

Yeah, whipped it together so fast I forgot the rail bushing! I'll put it together again tomorrow and see. Its probably why the valve looks a little crooked in this one too (thought it was just lens distortion at first):
20181008_203458.jpg

[luke]

I'll need the length measurements, preferably pulled from center line of the thumb screw and front grip screw holes, forward and back.

If anyone wants one of these speak up. I'll probably only make these once, they wont be a stock item, and I doubt I'll make extras...

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