AGD Shot Turd!!!!!

[hitech]

Tom,

I know you respect the opinion of Bill Mills. You should consider what he has to say. If you want to use the video to show why paintball markers should NOT be allowed to shoot at 20bps full auto, then do so. If you truly believe it is dangerous, then INSIST that they do NOT allow it at Shatner Ball.

Respectivly,
Hitech

[BTAutoMag]

wow billmi you put shartly to shame.

[AGD]

At the Shatner Game 3000 players, hundreds with full auto same as show above, will be shooing Larry King in front of nationwide on field tv coverage, but that's ok.

Professional players who are deified in our sport have fist fights at every event. But that's ok.

A player can bunker a guy and shoot him three times in the back of the head and HE DIES! NO problems with that.

At LA Open two pro captains are arguing and shooting guns without any googles on and they return to play another game. Juat part of the show.

Most recently at VEGAS against insurance rules a player shoots at a spectator through the net. That is not likely to cause publicity issues I guess.

At World Cup last year a major manufacturer had his goggles on the field even though they had not been certified which was against insurance rules. Funny thing is that same manufacturer had another company's goggles removed from the field the field the year before for the same thing. No press coverage on that.

I would sugest that if fights in hockey and the WPF don't get those sports kicked out of high school this little radio stunt won't either. The way we are looking at it the controversy is just saving us advertising dollars.

AGD

[BTAutoMag]

so they all are going to be shooting larry king and only larry king?

[bob87]

so they all are going to be shooting larry king and only larry king?

We get to shoot larry king that will be fun.

[manike]

Originally posted by AGD
At the Shatner Game 3000 players, hundreds with full auto same as show above, will be shooing Larry King in front of nationwide on field tv coverage, but that's ok.

Professional players who are deified in our sport have fist fights at every event. But that's ok.

A player can bunker a guy and shoot him three times in the back of the head and HE DIES! NO problems with that.

At LA Open two pro captains are arguing and shooting guns without any googles on and they return to play another game. Juat part of the show.

Most recently at VEGAS against insurance rules a player shoots at a spectator through the net. That is not likely to cause publicity issues I guess.

So you need to lower your self to their level? Shouldn't you as an industry leader try and stop such irresponsible actions in events you help to sponsor?

Do you see any 'evidence' of these acts on the net for anyone to see and use against the sport of paintball? Very little.

Do you see anyone trying to promote these events? Of course not.

and yet you think your irresponsible actions should be promoted and shown to everyone and made available for people to use against us?

You don't see the difference in harm that could come from your actions as compared to theirs? I should think with your position in the industry you would hold yourself to a higher level.

JJ has put a huge amount of work into promoting a charity event which will help the whole of paintball and you are using a stunt on the back of that which could have major bad consequences on our sport in order to promote your marker? If I were JJ I would be disgusted at what you were doing to this event.

I find it difficult to believe you actually thought that having someone screaming while being shot on FA for a radio audience could EVER help promote our sport.

What about all the new people listening on the radio who were thinking about playing or attending but now will not? You've given them an idea of paintball and a wrong invalid one but what do they know?

I think your actions Tom, were extremely irresponsible and that you should remove that video and pictures (too late?) rather than uploaded higher res versions.

Dissapointed.

manike

p.s. Someone said that technology wasn't available to the general public... well you are wrong. It's an e-mag with a warp feed and halo. With the aftermarket board now available, allowing FA, anyone could have this capability if they wanted.

When JJ said FA would be allowed at the game I was concerned. I know what FA at such rates can do, even in responsible hands. Let alone irresponsible hands. After this I wouldn't even say Tom's hands were responsible enough for it. I hope JJ re thinks allowing FA. I don't want to play in an uncontrolled game where this could happen. A controlled game yes (and that's different) but not a big game with 'Joe Public' there...

[beam]

Tom,

To help me understand your motive a bit more...can you answer me this:

Did you develop that marker/technology that could go 20bps to make a point or to make money? Did you make that marker to cause others in the industry to pause and consider where bps is heading? Or, did you develop it along with the new Level 10 just to make money, thus basically saying "Screw it then, if they aren't gonna cap bps/fullauto then neither am I!"

I just want to know your motives. You brought up other issues that have popped up in the industry (fights, masks, etc) but then said that you view this controversy as a money saving tactic.

Is this about principles or money?

[Riotz]

Originally posted by thei3ug
Morning radio is ruined for me forever.

That's what you get for listening to the Howard Stern rip-off, Mancow.

[raehl]

Originally posted by AGD
At the Shatner Game 3000 players, hundreds with full auto same as show above, will be shooing Larry King in front of nationwide on field tv coverage, but that's ok.

I wasn't under the impression this was part of the planned activities, and if it is, I'm going to rethink my attendence at the event and whether or not I promote it to college players.

Professional players who are deified in our sport have fist fights at every event. But that's ok.

This is definitely not ok. It is why I don't pay any attention to pro paintball, and why similar activity in the college league gets you banned for life.

A player can bunker a guy and shoot him three times in the back of the head and HE DIES! NO problems with that.

And when has this ever happened? Although again, it's NOT ok, and again, where I have control over it in the NCPA, would be penalized heavily.

At LA Open two pro captains are arguing and shooting guns without any googles on and they return to play another game. Juat part of the show.

I really wish people would stop using pro paintball as an example of anything other than what is fundamentally screwed up with the sport.

Most recently at VEGAS against insurance rules a player shoots at a spectator through the net. That is not likely to cause publicity issues I guess.

It caused publicity issues within paintball - what it is NOT likely to do, and what the rest of your examples of piss poor behavior on the part of our "pros" are not likely to do, is show up at a government hearing about whether or not to ban paintball equipment.

At World Cup last year a major manufacturer had his goggles on the field even though they had not been certified which was against insurance rules. Funny thing is that same manufacturer had another company's goggles removed from the field the field the year before for the same thing. No press coverage on that.

This is a separate argument - the independence of the paintball media from the paintball companies. Obviously, in many cases where paintball media is owned by, or heavily funded by, paintball companies, this independence is in many cases lacking. It has nothing to do with the issue at hand: Is having the Turd and Mancow videos where paintball opponents can get them going to screw us over royally in the future? And it absolutely is.

I would sugest that if fights in hockey and the WPF don't get those sports kicked out of high school this little radio stunt won't either. The way we are looking at it the controversy is just saving us advertising dollars.

All of your examples are referring to instances occuring within the confines of athletic events amongst participants. No one is worried about a fight on a hockey rink, because that fight is not going to spill over into their back yard. Many people have a fear of paintball equipment, albeit an irrational one, and that video plays on and reinforces that fear - because while two pros being dicks out in Vegas definitely isn't a good thing, it's being shot by paintball equipment that is going to get voters to want their legislators to act against paintball. You are missing the "That could happen to me!" factor. We know it can't happen to people, but people who see that video do not.

Tom, it was a mistake. Pointing out other areas of the sport that need improvement does not make this any less of a mistake. Please fix it before it shows up in Baltimore and they use it to justify passing their paintball ban, or some other paintball-ignorant person gets ahold of it and uses it as impetus to propose a ban in their area.

As a side note, if you really want to fix those other problems, stop spending your sponsor dollars supporting the events that allow them to occur.

- Chris

[raehl]

And one more thing...

I doubt there is anyone who is more informed on paintball as a high school sport than I am since I have spent considerable effort promoting high school paintball. While your radio stunt may not be likely to get paintball kicked out of the one of 20-30 high schools where it is a club/sport right now, it is very likely, especially in the video form, to prevent paintball from ever becoming a sport in many high schools. I work with parents and administrators on a regular basis, both locally and nationally, and frankly, that video would scare them good. How is a parent supposed to know that what you just did to Turd isn't going to happen to their child when they're playing?

I certainly wouldn't want to be the first kid whose parents find and watch the copy of that video they downloaded onto the hard drive and forgot to delete.

The video does NOTHING positive, and stands to cause serious damage. There is nothing to be lost by locking it up and never letting it out again.

Thanks,
Chris

[BTAutoMag]

Re: And one more thing...

Originally posted by raehl
I certainly wouldn't want to be the first kid whose parents find and watch the copy of that video they downloaded onto the hard drive and forgot to delete.

The video does NOTHING positive, and stands to cause serious damage. There is nothing to be lost by locking it up and never letting it out again.

Thanks,
Chris

i still want the vidio in mpg format. i wanna see it!

[FatMan]

Um, I might wear out my AO welcome on this, but I have to agree with Bill and Chris. Tom, this wasn't a good move. I understand and agree with your position WRT full-auto, but this stunt is not the right way to prove it. I just don't think it fits with the overall character and image of you, AGD, AO, or paintball.

Plain and simple that's not what paintball is all about. And if you want to demonstrate technology you can do it in a different way. I would be all for a demonstration that shows that full auto is unsafe - but not on a living creature - padded or not. That simply smacks of the MTV show whose name I cannot say here lest the word police ban me.

Tom, we all respect you, your company, and your products - and I think we're all willing to forgive this one - still I think you ought to back down on this. The main reason is all the kids here on AO who idolize you. They are the ones who are going to defend this - I hope they won't emulate it. I don't think you want them going around thinking that was the right thing to do.

That's my say on it,

FatMan

[AGD]

Airgun Designs has always stood for safety in paintball. We have ALWAYS been against full auto. We REMAIN against full auto. The video represents WHY we are against full auto and brings it to the forefront.

Yes we ARE showing this video in the hopes that everyone in the industry gets upset about it and it causes a huge controversy. You are all participating right now in that plan. This video here is not the problem, the problem will come when the manufacturers of the full auto markers get their own videos on the evening news. When that happens I can guarantee you it will not show an actor on a radio station but some poor kid getting both eyes shot out.

A nine year old kid with a cane will destroy this industry much faster than Mancow ever could. The real problem is apparent in the posts on this thread, you don't do anything about it until its on TV.

You want me to take it down, call Tippman, Kingman, WDP, Indian Creek, Centerflag, Racegun and Bob Long and ask them when they are going to take full auto out of their programs.

As soon as they get the point I would be glad to take the vids down.

Tom Kaye

[manike]

Originally posted by AGD
Yes we ARE showing this video in the hopes that everyone in the industry gets upset about it and it causes a huge controversy.

So until then you are going to help cause controversy that could ultimately affect our whole sport?

Do you really need to do it by showing the world and the public? and risking our sport?

Wouldn't it be better behind closed doors to the ASTM and assembled manufacturers?

I don't like the way you are doing this and it doesn't come across to me as if you are just doing it to be against FA. It looks like you are looking for media attention. Of a bad sort

To coin someone elses words. I hope you are not shooting yourself (and our sport) in the foot.

manike

[manike]

Also don't you think you could have tried to prove your point with people wearing the PROPER safety equipment?

Your actions are irresponsible in that fact alone.

manike