AGD Shot Turd!!!!!

[Hexis]

I like the new version of the video a lot more. It shows Turd being very impressed and not hurt at the end. Yub Yub!

[Butterfingers]

Alright I am torn...

As a supplier/manufacturer of the only publicly available modification to turn an e-mag full auto, we like all the publicity we can get.

However, there is good publicity and there is bad publicity. The more I watch these videos the more and more I think that they are a mistake. At least the first one is with a human target.

The only advantage of "stunts" is free public exposure, however this exposure is not what we want.

It is bad because:

1) The first rule in marketing is to know and TARGET your audience.

The majority of people that hear this stunt do not play paintball. They will develop misconceptions about the sport this hurts EVERYBODY including yourself.

A very small percentage of people in the states listen to mancow. I didnt even know who he was until it was posted here. It is only avilable in a few states. In addition even fewer people who listen to mancow play paintball.

What is happening is the stunt is turning ALOT of people off to the sport and impressing VERY FEW.

You have missed the target and shot yourself in the foot.

2) Stunts often create controversy as evidenced by some of these replies. Controversy is like a keg of black powwder in the hot sun. Its unpredictable and may very well end up blowing up in your face.

As others have said there are other ways to demo a product that are much more effective.

Don and I don't have that much money, but we do our best to market our e-magnum conversion.

We will soon release videos of your wonderful e-mag shooting 20 bps FA drawing pretty pictures on inanimate objects with streams of paint. I have sucessfully drawn an outline of a rose with green paint and filled in the head of the flower with orange paint. Given it was the ugliest flower you will ever see but, it is very difficult to develop an arguement against this activity against paintball. Yet it sucessfully shows the capability of the gun.

I have done demos at 20 bps where every shot hit a jug in the middle of the range demonstrating the speed and accuracy of your product. In this case it was at a paintball field and we know 100% of the people there play paintball and we are pretty sure at least 99% of the people there were impressed. VERY efficent marketing. Given the target analogy we hit the bullseye with this group.

I hope I don't regret saying this but... here goes... AGD's marketing "sucks" because there is very little investment in it. Marketing is a "marketable" asset and alot of people know the advantage of it.

Simply put you pay for what you get. You put little money into marketing you get crappy marketing. You spend alot and do it RIGHT you get a return 10 times more valuable than what you put in.

If marketing is done right the return is tremendous. Look at WGP. The most expensive variants of this gun is approximately 2 times slower than the e-mag and only has ONE mode of fire. Yet they are selling off the shelf.

Proof positive of effective marketing and business technique.

Tom, I am extemely loyal to your company and know you hold strong moral convictions, but perhaps you should take this "marketing" in a diffrent direction.

When I said you should prove you have the fastest gun in the west this was not what I had in mind.

I have mentioned what I belive to be effective marketing techniques in many of my previous postings. Please tom, consider these for the love of AGD.

[RoadDawg]

Tom I'm proud to say that I'm at ease with the new stuff added. This is a serious issue and I'm glad to see you were able to mend the wrong doing.

Nick
Proud mag holder

[raehl]

I havn't seen the new video yet, but thanks Tom.

Scooter: Your "other sports" analogy makes no sense. The accurate analogy would be comparing this video to a video of the President of Rawlings beating Turd over the head with a baseball bat while he curses and begs for mercy, but saying it's ok because Turd was wearing a helmet and didn't get any bruises or bumps.

It's additionally invalid because other sports don't suffer the disadvantage of being new and placed under the constant scrutiny that ours is.


- Chris

[hitech]

Originally posted by shartley
Good job Tom. But you did not cave in?. you did the responsible thing. And the video is STILL just as funny, but defuses any misuse of it... Again, good job.

I agree!

[hitech]

Originally posted by AGD
Anyone emailed Tippman yet? Or do you just pick on me because I'm here?

I know this responce it a little late, but...

Email tippman, no, don't know how. I also don't know what Tippman has in the way of a full auto marker (sorry, I've been out of touch).

"Pick on" you because you're here. You betcha! This is the only place I know of that I (and everyone else) can get those who are in a position to make things happen in the paintball industry to actually listen. The other place for me was the LA donut orgy, but then that was because of AO also.

[hitech]

Originally posted by AGD
So far today I have been on the phone with JJ, Jessica Sparks and Forest Brown. Things are getting interesting.

So, is full auto NOT going to be allowed at "Shatner Ball"?

[billmi]

Originally posted by hitech


So, is full auto NOT going to be allowed at "Shatner Ball"?

I've been told by both JJ Brookshire (producer of the event) and Forest Brown (head honcho at Challenge Park Xtreme) that it will not be allowed.

The reasoning given by Forest is that ASTM is on the verge of finalizing (all voting members in agreement) a standard which allows only semi auto and pump action paintguns.

In a side note about the ASTM, it is an agency with absolutely no power. It exists only to publish standards, it can not force anyone to adhere to those standards. Thus the finalization of this standard will not force AGD or any manufacturers Tom mentioned his concerns with to not make full autos.

See you on the field,
-Bill Mills

[Load SM5]

Not to be too picky, but you spelled "demonstration" wrong.

It looks bad for an industry leader to be misspelling things.

[spazzed]

I've got a question about the updated video... At the beginning, it says "Illegal Marker". Why? What's illegal? I know e-mags aren't full auto, is that one being full-auto make it illegal? I'm confused, my poor little college brain is too full for such deep though!

[raehl]

I agree....

While I generally like the modifications to the videos, I would also prefer "illegal" be replaced with another word. "Illegal" just gives people ideas - Who makes it illegal? What's illegal about it that we should write a law about to make sure it's illegal here too? That kind of thing.

Maybe something like "non-retail" or some such. I'm sure someone on the boards here has a good suggestion (as one is not coming to me at the moment.)

Thanks,
Chris

[raehl]

And as far as standards go...

Standards have power when you give them power. To take on my full-time job, a PCI standard doesn't have any power to make people design PCI compliant devices, but if your device does not meet the standard, then it won't work.

Similarly, the ASTM standard doesn't force anyone to stop the manufacturing of non-standard equipment, but if I say that equipment that does not meet the standard isn't allowed at NCPA events (and I will, and I would expect the Board to support that decision), and insurers say they will not cover injuries caused by equipment that does not meet the standards, and we fight paintball legislation by conceding a ban against the sale of non-ASTM conforming paintball guns, then the standard has force, because no one will be making non-standard equipment because no one will have any place to buy or use it.


It is also my understanding that there will be no FA permitted at shatnerball.


- Chris

[hitech]

Originally posted by billmi
I've been told by both JJ Brookshire (producer of the event) and Forest Brown (head honcho at Challenge Park Xtreme) that it will not be allowed. The reasoning given by...

Thanks Bill. I have to admit that I was shocked at what 20bps full auto can do.

[billmi]

Originally posted by hitech


Thanks Bill. I have to admit that I was shocked at what 20bps full auto can do.

Even when there were plans for full auto at the event, CPX was going to limit it to 10 bps maxiumum, fired in bursts of no more than 2 seconds duration, and players pulled off the field if they overshot anyone - be that with pump, semi, or full auto.

See you on the field,
-Bill Mills

[Ov3rmind]

Well, I've just been reading this thread for a while, and I've decided to answer.

First off, Tom, I've always respected you in the paintball community. You actually take the time to listen to your fellow paintballers and see what they wan't in a product. When I saw the first version of the movie, I was a little disappointed that you had done this over the radio. I've always been big on paintball's publicity, so this made me mad to say the least. However, I'm glad you edited the movie to clarify it to the general public, and I hope you have not lost too much respect on these boards. Just remember to think about things like this before they become public. At this point and time, paintball is a target for restrictions and bans in many places in the USA and other countries. So before we become really mainstream, paintball as a community has to take special care to watch it's actions, and stop making making excuses for stupid mistakes. I'm glad you changed the video though, because I know you care about this sport too.

On the issue of banning FA. Personally, I'm very much against it. There's not really any places to use it on a legal feild, and all it does is give immature kids the chance to light people and public property up. I think the industry needs to take a closer and more serious look into this issue, because I don't see any positive use for FA.