40 balls per second on Spyders... ?

[Arturus]

I found this at PBnation.

"6) The gun will fire faster than any hopper can feed paint, so rate of fire is not a concern. When a spyder is allowed to go full cyclic it will cycle at more than 40hz. This would be 40 balls per seccond. If you're having troubble fireing fast, it's not the guns fualt. (yes that is faster than a RT, yes that makes angels look sad, and yes, all spyder/piranha/JT/raptor/f1/vm-68 type blowbacks are about the same)"

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?threadid=42392

I'm guessing if there's any truth to that, it's with major shootdown and horrible consistency? Just looking into low-end/entry type markers for friend(s), and ran into that.

The moderator posted the FAQ thread - he sounded honest and reliable, just wanted to confirm it with the forum here.

[FrAuStY]

My brother and I did that with my spyder... WE just removed the sear from the trigger guard... pull the hammer back and let it rip... it was going so fast I could do nothing but let it drain about 8 ounces of co2 out of my 20oz before it finally stopped. It was wild... like holding a machine gun with infinite shells. I'm sure I could have stopped it...but it was too much fun. Anyway..that is a valid statement butt you're right about the consistency thing...the hole bottom line setup was frozen...after it froze the gu started firing real farty. I don't belive its a good idea to run it that way either... I had to replace my spring as I guess it got hot...next time I chronoed it it was shooting 180 instead of 280

*EDIT* - This is only Cycles per second...not BPS.. in my eyes..cycles means full motion of firing mechanism... from rest to firing to re-cocking back to rest with no paint! BPS would be the same...only shooting paint. In my experience this was simply cycles... I don't know exactly how fast but it was up there...I mean.. it felt like the gun was vibrating... Anyway...I replaced my spyder with a mag so what does that tell you? I got inconsistent velocties with 10 bps.. lol imagine what 25-30 would be like.. 280-160-180-140-160-180-100-150 lol you get the idea!

[wes]

for my spyder i put another pin inside the sear and it was f/a and i made a recording of it. CAtch me on aim to hear it

[FeuerFri]

actully, it may be a lil streached truth, but i had a spyder flash that i could out shoot my revvie 12vlt easy in just semi. with the right mods, no shoot down. i had a lp set up on my old gun, had a high flow open face bolt, a black ice reg, high flow valve and valve pin assembally, and a drilled out v/a, and that puppy ripped like no ones bisnuess(sp?). i would say 15-20bps is a reasonable claim for right set-up. i have also seen ppl who have fit angel electronics inside of em1's.

[RT_Luver]

can you say SHOOTDOWN. dude, that is TOTALLY BS.

['Mag]

I made a full auto sear for the Spyder. It has the same dimensions as the normal sear, but instead of a slot it just has a hole. This stops the sear from sliding off the trigger (thus recatching the striker), so if you hold down the trigger it shoots full auto, but when you let go it stops. The cycle rate is very fast (if my microphone worked I'd record it and find out how fast it's really going), but I think it's well over 20bps. I could try it with the Halo B and see if it's aournd 22bps, but that'll have to wait for a time when I have extra paint sitting around. I'm sure I could at least get some crazy fast bursts. If only I had a digital camera.......

[Arturus]

Just incase..

This thread wasn't started to challange, or have a debate about which gun can cycle/shoot the fastest.

Rather to gather and confirm what's true, so I can have a general idea of how Spyders will/can operate under the right conditions.

Friends deciding on either a Spyder or Tippmann - though he seems to be leaning towards the Spyder early on.

Anyway, I didn't want there to be any room for this thread to suddenly turn into an argument and/or flame. If any objections, I'd rather have a 'discussion'.

Thanks for the responses so far.

[paintbattler]

thats a bunch of crap..it will be lucky to get 10 bps

[DarkPhoenix]

We have to remember that the author of the aforementioned post said "cycle". I would have to make an educated guess and say that this is achieved without firing paint. Now the facts that he mentioned about the RT valve were also true but, unless I am mistaken, he failed to mention that the results were attained by actually firing paintballs (by forcefeeding them, true but nevertheless) without measurable shootdown.

The "cyclic rate" of any firearm, unless I am wrong, is measured by the speed of how many times weapon can complete a load and fire cycle per second.

The information extended by the linked post was very well-written, but unless I am wrong, the speeds to which a spyder can achieve a "rate-of-fire" or "cyclic rate", in which the marker is shooting paintballs, have not been tested, to my knowledge. In my own opinion, I am sure should the spyder undergo the same testing which the RT valve underwent, the results would not come close to that of the RT, the rate-of-fire might come close but with what ammount of shootdown?

Anyway, it is not the gun, it is the person behind the gun.

[Butterfingers]

Read my post in PBN.

[Arturus]

FrAuStY and Wes -

Thanks, I'm getting an idea of how the high 'cycle' (couldn't come up with a clearer term) rate is achieved, under certain circumstances.

DarkPhoenix and Butterfingers -

Thanks for the clarifications, in uses of terms and such. Makes it easier for me to explain or try to on how the Spyder can perform.

Call it a bad habit, but when I read posts on other forums and unsure of the answer, I come here to confirm it.

[Top Secret]

Cyclic rates in firearms are typically in Rounds Per Minute as to actually let you see the complete difference in speed clearly.

RT Valve(26bps) = 1560 rounds per minute without shootdown
Emagnum(30bps)= 1800 rounds per minute
Angel@13bps = 780 rounds per minute

16bps = 960 rounds per minute

15bps = 900 rounds per minute

It lets you clearly see that the mere difference of one bps, is actually an additional 60 rounds into the air every minute.

As for 40 bps, 2400 rpm. All I can say is...

Yeah right...

['Mag]

The trigger mechanism would definitely slow down the rate of fire in a Spyder. Just having the sear slide back and forth, then catching and releasing the striker would greatly effect the possible rate of fire in semi. I bet it would at least cut the rate in half.

If any of you have shot one of those cheap electro Spyders that Kingman is selling now, you probably would have noticed that the supposed 13bps in full auto is considerably slower than I can fan in semi with my Hyperframe. I'd say it's somewhere's around 10 bps, maybe a little more. I think that this is about all the faster that the solenoid can activate the sear.

But in straight cylces per second I bet the Spyder can go pretty fast. Once you start using the sear and trigger mechanisms it really slows down.

[RRfireblade]

I would say no dice to 40bps.I have a Piranha ProTsG3.It has all the typical LP mods and fires 285fps @ 300psi.Thanks to PMI,it has a full auto option right from the factory.WHATT?? you say.Piranha's,maybe not all I don't know,have a sear release right on the grip for field stripping and guess what depress that and pull the trigger and its full auto baby!You wanna see the electro boys scratch thier heads in the middle of the game and nearly lose thier minds!Anyway,firing paint it won't do over 20-22bps for like 1/2 a second before it's starving(and pinching but it rarely ever chops believe it or not).With out paint the best I can figure use basic audio analysis,it's close to 26 or 28.Thier's just to much recipricating mass in the bolt and hammer to get much faster and then it'll only flow so much air through the valve.And trust me,I got that thing opened up as much as humanly possible without threat of mechanicle failure.

Anyway thats my experiance,

Jay.

P.S. Having both a Shutter(my Bro) and the ProTsG3 I believe the Piranhas are machined better with tighter tolerances and are overall better guns and should have more potential.But whatever that means.

[RRfireblade]

Here's a pic.And you of course it wasn't with that hopper,it just looks cool in the pic.