AGD really let me down at PSP (long)

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  • lamby
    A.K.A Spanker
    • Oct 2002
    • 394

    #1

    AGD really let me down at PSP (long)

    Well, after a little break from paintball it is time to voice my complaints:

    I am starting to think that AGD does NOT make a tourney level gun. I was really happy with my emag for about a year but that all changed in one day in June. Team Mad Cow plays with 3 emags, and 2 angels.

    The pregame stageing and crono was fine, like I expected it would be. but it all went terribly wrong our first game, which was at the shocktech field. All three of our emags were almost banned from play because we removed the trigger pins in them to prevent the dreaded "trigger bounce" that these guns are known for in "Hybrid" mode. After agueing with the chrono ref for about 5 minutes he decided to let us play, but told us that if the trigger pins were not installed we would be disqualified for all future games. The reason that we gave us for this was very justifiable "the rt valve does not reflect the proper FPS unless you hold in the trigger and simulate a fast fire position, therefore without the trigger pins in we can't chrono these markers correctly and you will be shooting hotter than what you chrono."

    Ok after this I was pretty POed now I had to setup 3 emags in a short period of time because we had to play another game on the shocktech field in one hour. The Emag, as those that shoot them know, can become reactive very easily in hybrid mode. this was very hard to balance this "bounce" with, the ability to charge the RT (keep pressure on the on/off pin to simulate a fast fire for chrono'ing)

    This marker has a major problem with the combined electronic/manual function that is touted by AGD, (the reason I picked one over the angel in the first place) that AGD is aware of. One of AGD's teams (Lions) had this same problem at world cup last year and they had to pull the trigger pins to eliminate the tourney banning "bounce" that they were experiencing. I adjusted the markers so they could not shoot in manual mode, but still placed pressure on the on/off for chono. There was a no bounce with the flatlines dialed into 575 psi (but the markers were skipping shots because the input pressure was too low. I dialed the tanks to 625ish and they shot fine but there was significant trigger bounce. Ok, now we are screwed I am thinking, I adjust the tanks to 575 and said we will have to deal with the missed shots or we will be banned. One player dropped his Emag for a backup Timmy that we had.

    We all were allowed on the field and chrono'ed ok. My Emag was sputtering, as there was not enough pressure to cycle the level X correctly (not want you want from a back guy).
    I think that we might have lost that game because of the incredible loss of speed that my gun was suffering.

    After that game, I went back and boosted my input pressure to 650 and said I will deal with the marker DQ if it happens. We had a spare cocker ready to run at the next game.

    The next field was the evil field and we did not have any problems because they never took the guns out of "E-Mode" Our front player went back to his Emag, and all was good.

    life was good until the skys opened up. Where the E-mags again showed a major weakness (they are far from water tight) we lost our markers because of water on the boards and in the hall effect switch, which cost us games. (they were sliconed before we had to open them up because of the trigger pin problem above).

    All of this and NO AGD techs to be found. I was PI$$ED. AGD failed us miserablely. I can see why AGD markers are a joke among many serious players.

    I am warning you. If you want to play at the highest levels of this sport, buy a marker that is:
    1) supported (all other manifactures were at the PSP)
    2) does not have major design flaws. (bounce)
    3) capable of shooting in the rain without short circuiting

    I am very upset with AGD and now I will be buying a Angel IR3 or a shocker (if they are as nice as I heard)

    I will not loose another game because of a marker. If I loose, I want it to our fault, not equipment.


    Thank you for reading this post
  • Dayspring
    aka- The Day Wang

    • May 2001
    • 9664

    #2
    I don't see ANYWHERE in there where it's AGD's fault.

    You removed the trigger rods, and were told to put them back in. YOUR CALL. You know how the gun has to be chrono'd. The Judge just called you on it.

    Fried a board. YOU took them apart and didn't silicone them again. (Granted, I kinda agree w/ the waterproofing thing, it's NOT AGD's fault.)

    I don't know about you, but I run 800-850 into the gun and don't have this huge bounce you're afraid of.
    The bounce isn't a design flaw... (BTW- it's being worked on)


    Do not blame AGD for problems YOU encountered, and in some cases, created for yourself.


    BTW- If you look, Tom posted WHY AGD wasn't there. He also posted that there are manufacturers that only go to PSP or only go to NPPL. So why don't you yell at them too.

    Comment

    • Duke Henry
      Team SYNDICATE
      • Jun 2002
      • 542

      #3
      Why were you shooting your guns in Hybrid to start with? I am curious, I only use my Emag in E-Mode but that is my own personal preference.

      Sorry to hear about your bad experience.
      TEAM SYNDICATE

      My Ebay Feedback

      Comment

      • Frank (the spank)
        Registered User
        • Apr 2003
        • 375

        #4
        Was the chrono judge able to bounce the trigger?

        As I understood it, if a ref or judge is able to bounce it then it would be illegal, otherwise you can use it.

        What a bunch of crap... knowing my temper I probaly would have tank whipped the jerk and called it a day.
        My cats bum rises when I pet it.

        Comment

        • AutomagRT1483
          AutoWangRT1483
          • Oct 2002
          • 2987

          #5
          Here's an idea...stop complaining and get a back-up gun in case this happends like most people do. Sheesh.

          Sorry if it seems a little harsh, but all I have been hearing lately, from mag owners, is how much AGD sucks. You know if they all have problems so much why dont they just sell their mags and get something else???
          Last edited by AutomagRT1483; 06-25-2003, 10:41 AM.

          Moderate with Equality & Consistency in 2005!
          AO-WI: Player's List - Now with over 100 People!!!
          Karta #082
          Member #007 of the Unoffical Trina Fan Club
          Great Traders: automagfreek, ClassicMagger, Emagster, fire1811, Kevmaster, MrMag, Nicad, oldsoldier, RogueFactor, SpongeBobSquarePantsx2 , SteveDx10+, The Frymarker, Treefall25, Tunamanx3, warpfeedmod
          In Loving Memory of Eric "Po" Ison Oct. 10, 1974 - Dec. 31, 2004

          Comment

          • lamby
            A.K.A Spanker
            • Oct 2002
            • 394

            #6
            Dayspring:

            It is AGDs fault. I was tring to reverse engineer a marker to make it legal and could not. I did not get pulled for trigger bounce because my input pressure was so low (aka to the point of not firing). I also seen the PSP post about AGD not being there, I dont care for excuses I want results. TK made a comment that WDP was not there for the PSP.. That is BS they were there with 5 techs. The trigger bounce issue has been know by AGD for a long time and it still is not fixed (the new "light weight manual trigger" that TK is working on should fix this as it is an adjustable (via shims) On/Off assy. I know how to chrono my markers, and I know what the rule is on trigger bounce. You can't have both worlds. Understand the marker before you coment, there is a known design flaw that AGD has yet to fix!!

            Duke

            We wern't in hybrid. the chrono ref was though. I like Emode only but we would have been banned without the annoying trigger pins

            Comment

            • lamby
              A.K.A Spanker
              • Oct 2002
              • 394

              #7
              rt1483:

              I will have a backup gun it will be my emag. I will not use that maker in another large tourney until AGD fixes it correctly (I think a new valve design is in order for e mode only.) but I dont care. I am buying a new marker and I will not buy, or recommed AGD to anyone else that wants to play at a high level. the emag is prob the best field marker made.. It is fast, easy to maintain, nice on paint, but there are problem that can ban it from tourneys. When you drop the kind of money needed for travel, logdeing, and registration, a chance of a DQed marker is a pretty HUGE risk.

              You have met me. You know I always defended AGD in the past. You know I loved my Emag. That all changed June 18th 2003.

              Comment

              • Dayspring
                aka- The Day Wang

                • May 2001
                • 9664

                #8


                Originally posted by lamby
                Dayspring:

                Understand the marker before you coment, there is a known design flaw that AGD has yet to fix!!

                Comment

                • Spaceman613
                  Guinness taste tester
                  • Jan 2002
                  • 550

                  #9
                  remember when these "flaws" used to be features? like turbo?
                  http://www.spaceman613.net

                  http://www.bunkerboyz.com for CCM and your pump paintball needs.

                  Comment

                  • AutomagBoy
                    Property of US MarineCorps
                    • Feb 2003
                    • 283

                    #10
                    hmmm, maybe now i'm no longer thinking of getting an emag or xmag. I have never realy shot one before so i dont know the problems. Ill probably get a shocker now.

                    Comment

                    • AutomagRT1483
                      AutoWangRT1483
                      • Oct 2002
                      • 2987

                      #11
                      I understand where your coming from lamby. Sorry if I got outta line.

                      Moderate with Equality & Consistency in 2005!
                      AO-WI: Player's List - Now with over 100 People!!!
                      Karta #082
                      Member #007 of the Unoffical Trina Fan Club
                      Great Traders: automagfreek, ClassicMagger, Emagster, fire1811, Kevmaster, MrMag, Nicad, oldsoldier, RogueFactor, SpongeBobSquarePantsx2 , SteveDx10+, The Frymarker, Treefall25, Tunamanx3, warpfeedmod
                      In Loving Memory of Eric "Po" Ison Oct. 10, 1974 - Dec. 31, 2004

                      Comment

                      • WARPED1
                        I'm a pirate, ARRRRRRRRRR!
                        • Nov 2001
                        • 7458

                        #12
                        Originally posted by AutomagRT1483
                        H why dont they just sell their mags and get something else???
                        I did. Also, in his little story, his front man switched to a timmy and he said he had a backup cocker to shoot if need be While the emag is a good marker for the most part, like every gun, it has it's share of trouble. Some are hard for some, others it's no big deal. Like me having to mill my rail for warp ULE's, even only 1/8th", really bothers me, but thats just me, so I traded my Emag away, after venting here .
                        Basically it does come down to what he said about going to events of support, not AGD's fault, so next time ya do PSP, don't bring the Emags! But for the love of all thats holy, get anything other than a Timmy! (personal pref once again...........)
                        [Something Cool is Here]

                        Comment

                        • Meph
                          AO's Tippmann Guy
                          • Aug 2002
                          • 737

                          #13
                          Originally posted by lamby
                          I dont care for excuses I want results.
                          Care to help by ponying up a few thousand so AGD can be there despite their budget restraints? If not, then shut up.


                          And why didn't you do this trigger debouncing stuff days BEFORE the tournament? Why not get it ready before hand so when the day arrives, you will be all set and not have to fix it under a deadline like that?

                          Take some responsibility for yourself and quit pointing blame. I can get an E-mag set up so it won't get the triggerbounce. It's not too difficult. Next time get ready for the event sooner than the day of!

                          Comment

                          • cphilip
                            Former Moderator

                            • Jun 2026
                            • 16216

                            #14
                            Well your problem all started because a ref made you put the trigger rod back in. There is NOTHINGin the rules to back him up. Many electronic markers do NOT EVEN HAVE trigger rods. So how can it be required that you have one? It cannot.

                            The fault is in the PSP reffing and missinterpretation of the rules. And in fact that is the stupidest example of rules enforcement I have EVER heard.

                            I think we now can see another reason that AGD did not want to be present at the PSP.


                            AGD, where we are so good we can do it with only ONE tube!

                            cphilip.com

                            Comment

                            • lamby
                              A.K.A Spanker
                              • Oct 2002
                              • 394

                              #15
                              meph:

                              I would love to see this.. AGD himself was not able to accomplish this at Cup last year, acording to one of the players from AGD Lions. They had to pull the trigger pins out. Your location says "AOs tippman guy" do you use, or ever even setup an Emag?

                              Comment

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