AGD really let me down at PSP (long)

[covadsucks]

At this year's Mardi Gras Open we(Team AO) were not checked for trigger bounce at all. The only time I was checked was for not having my safety installed in my EMag and even then it was allowed onto the field.

I think the refs simply didn't understand the rules and got overzealous with your markers. Sucks that you got screwed.

[cphilip]

Well lamby that is not entirely correct. The Loins did that on their own at the crono station to get past a particularly fiestly ref. He was doing everything he could to get any marker to bounce. He disallowed several NON AGD markers. And there was no fix for those. But the AGD ones could be fixed. And that was easily done by removing the use of Hybrid by removing the rods. And all was well.

[cphilip]

Meph, this issue is not his fault. It's entirely on that Ref. He required something that cannot be required.

[Meph]

I may own 6 Tippmanns and have been labeled the "Tippmann guy." I didn't call myself that, I've BEEN called that. So I just adopted it.

However I'm also a PTI certified Airsmith! Something I'm sure you knew. I have also studied and worked with most every marker out there in my own time. So I can actually tell you about 90% of all markers, on and off the market.

And no, I don't know how to set up an E-mag. Which is why I had to fix a friends' because he couldn't get it to work, and after I was done he loved it. So no, I don't know. And I don't even own a mag...... besides my ULE with X-valve of course. But that's besides the point since I'm "The Tippmann Guy" right?

Yeah.

And Cph. It's not entirely his fault, no. But he is in part yes. There's no reason for him to not set it up before the event. I'm smarter than that, I'm sure you are. Anybody who thinks logically is. To gas up and completely check your markers and even your backup(s) before going to a tournament.

But the refs of course are also to blame if they don't know the rules and regulations. That's the worst thing that any place can have, refs who don't know squat. Really makes any event a complete waste of $$ and time.

[Duke Henry]

Re: ...

Originally posted by RogueFactor
Pardon my ignorance, but doesnt just pulling the jumper from the E-mag board disable Hybrid?

Pulling the jumper from the Emag board disables the 3 and 6 shot bursts.

[cphilip]

No, that which you are thinking about is Burst modes I believe.

[Jonesie]

The trigger bounce issue is a relatively new issue. I think it hasn't been an official rule until this season, meaning the Lions wouldn't have had to deal with it a Cup last year, as it is a new issue this season.

Also, they have solved the problem by designing an On/Off pin with less surface area on the top (a smaller head, if you will) so as to reduce the reactivity to an acceptable level as per the new rule.

IF you hadn't taken out your trigger rod, you gun would have outperformed any other gun at the tournament. That is your mistake.

As per AGD's official statement on the matter, I refer you to:
1. http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...pl+bounce+rule
2. http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...pl+bounce+rule
(Scroll down to Tom's post about a solution)

BTW - Shoot whatever you want. E-Mag, Angel, Tippmann, they all fire paintballs @ 300FPS.

EDIT:
However, I DO agree that there should have been Techs at the CHICAGO event. But think about this, WDP is an official sponsor of the NPPL. As far as I know, they will not be at any PSP events, AT ALL. So your Angel issues will have to be dealt with by a 3rd party, not WDP directly...

Hope This Helps ~ Dave

[cphilip]

Well the point here is they should be allowed to take them out if they chose. There is no rule requires a rod activated trigger. However they would have to crono like they were taking them on the field. But that would be preferable to the way they ended up.

Yes the rule of one pull per shot WAS and ALWAYS has been around and one Ref at WC last year did enforce it that way. And he enforced it evenly and kicked several non AGD markers out. And all AGD markers were indeed allowed. How do I know? I was right there...

[lamby]

phillip:

The Emags at CUP were allowed only AFTER the trigger pins were removed. I was also told that this was only at one field. That is how our markers were setup going it this tourney. The catch 22 is what bagged us. You can't elminate trigger bounce, make your LX work correctly, and still chrono the RT valve correctly. As you know if you just shoot the marker you can run at say 285 fps but if you have pressure held on the on/off and then fire (simulating quick firing) you can spike up to 320ish on the chrono which will get you a 6 tourney suspension from the PSP events or a 2+1 at minimum.

Jonesey:
Thanks for the link. I am aware of all of this though. I am still waiting for the pin that would have fixed this problem before it happened. I was talking to TK about this at the Wisconsin AO meet and Greet at Sams. He said then he WOULD be at the chicago open with a programmer to get rid of the 16bps cap that the older emags have.

The point is, if AGD had techs there, and they have the new on/off tops (which I am sure they have), this would not have been an issue. AGD was not there and left us high and dry when we needed them most.

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

Isn't the Rt mode in the Rt valves a FEATURED design? If you knew you were going to a tourny that didn't allow trigger bounce, why would you bring guns that were completely dependant on trigger bounce? Yeah , meph said it earlier, i won't repeat it.

Who on this earth brings one gun to a major tournament? That's a great thing to do. Any gun can go down unexpectedly. If it were me, i would have simply removed the battery from the pack and used it on manual. But that's just me.

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

Originally posted by lamby

The point is, if AGD had techs there, and they have the new on/off tops, this would not have been an issue. AGD was not there and left us high and dry when we needed them.

Since when does AGD cater to you? You a factory team? It's absolutely not their responsibility.

[Dayspring]

Point is- the new on/offs aren't done yet, so having techs there wouldn't have helped.

Originally posted by lamby
The point is, if AGD had techs there, and they have the new on/off tops (which I am sure they have), this would not have been an issue. AGD was not there and left us high and dry when we needed them most.

[brian terry]

well i was playing 10 man with a team at psp last weekend.they had 4 emags and i had my xmag we all went on the field with not a bit of crap from anyone .the reffs shot our guns and said we are good to go .we played all 3 fields as well.the agd kids played 5 man and they dident have any prob getting on the field with there xmags.i just thank you got a stupid reff that did not know what he was doing.

[lamby]

ragu:

Did you not read the original post? we had backup markers, a cocker, a timmy, an RT pro, we even used a sister team's angel for one game as a replacement for my emag when the board went haywire. The timmy was used for one game on the shocktech field. If we went manual only the trigger bounce problem would have been exagerated as we would have had to pull the trigger pins out further to make them shoot in manual at all.

Only the 3 emags died at different times (three for three, that is 100% failure rate in the rain). The angels performed flawlessly all day, even in the rain. (except for the warps which failed (allowed water to get to the balls and make them swell and jam in the feed tube this was sota expected as paintballs do not like to be wet) and had to be removed when it started raining)

[cphilip]

Originally posted by lamby
phillip:

The Emags at CUP were allowed only AFTER the trigger pins were removed. I was also told that this was only at one field. That is how our markers were setup going it this tourney. The catch 22 is what bagged us. You can't elminate trigger bounce, make your LX work correctly, and still chrono the RT valve correctly.

I know that. I was there remember? And I just got through stating it was one Ref. And so it would indeed be one field.

And yes you can crono it. Anthing that shoots can be crono'd. You will end up with a low first shot not doing the RT proceedure but that would be a whole lot preferable to setting your tank so low as you did. You SHOULD have crono'd with the rods OUT and in E Mode anyway. See? It would have been better than what you ended up doing.


And as has been stated. There are no on offs tops yet outside few hand made ones.