A marketing idea for AGD

[no1beefcake]

Re: ...

Originally posted by RogueFactor


I would like that too, but it will never happen for $350. Lets put this in perspective...

ULE Body= $145
Level 10= $70
I-Frame= $110
ULE Rail= Conservative estimate= $50
Parts(Sear, Sear pin, Field strip screw, Trigger Frame screw, Air Hose, Fittings)= Conservative estimate= $30

Total without valve= $405

So, even if they could make the valve for $100, it would still be a $500 marker.

Your thinking is flawed. Those prices are what AGD is charging RETAIL. That isn't what they pay to make them. I'm sure that their physical markup is in the 30% range, possibly more. AGD will continue to lose out unless they make a marker showcasing their new technologies, that costs less that the intermediate electros (ie, Impulse, Shocker, etc). I know that if I was a guy wanting to buy a next-level paintgun, I'm more likely to spend my 500 bucks on a nice, electro, fast Impulse, than add money to it to buy an outdated RTPro. On the other hand, if I could get these cool features (albeit on a non-electro marker) for 150 less, I'm all over that.

[Marek]

Re: Re: ...

Originally posted by no1beefcake
AGD will continue to lose out unless they make a marker showcasing their new technologies, that costs less that the intermediate electros (ie, Impulse, Shocker, etc). I know that if I was a guy wanting to buy a next-level paintgun, I'm more likely to spend my 500 bucks on a nice, electro, fast Impulse, than add money to it to buy an outdated RTPro. On the other hand, if I could get these cool features (albeit on a non-electro marker) for 150 less, I'm all over that.

Outdated RTPro? Wow, that's new to me. Doesn't it use the same valve technology that the X-Mags use? You know, the top of the line electro for AGD? Oh, so it's outdated cuz it's a mech gun? WGP should stop making Orracles and Black Magiks, since they are not electros either and outdated. Because, to be in date, people must use electros right?

Sorry man, but I would pick an RTP over an Impy any day. Am I the average consumer? No, far from it unfortunately. Then again, I don't actually believe that the A4 shoots 30 bps either. I am more educated than that.

[shartley]

Re: Re: Re: ...

Originally posted by Marek
Outdated RTPro? Wow, that's new to me. Doesn't it use the same valve technology that the X-Mags use? You know, the top of the line electro for AGD? Oh, so it's outdated cuz it's a mech gun? WGP should stop making Orracles and Black Magiks, since they are not electros either and outdated. Because, to be in date, people must use electros right?

Sorry man, but I would pick an RTP over an Impy any day. Am I the average consumer? No, far from it unfortunately. Then again, I don't actually believe that the A4 shoots 30 bps either. I am more educated than that.

[no1beefcake]

Re: Re: Re: ...

Originally posted by Marek


Outdated RTPro? Wow, that's new to me. Doesn't it use the same valve technology that the X-Mags use? You know, the top of the line electro for AGD? Oh, so it's outdated cuz it's a mech gun? WGP should stop making Orracles and Black Magiks, since they are not electros either and outdated. Because, to be in date, people must use electros right?

Sorry man, but I would pick an RTP over an Impy any day. Am I the average consumer? No, far from it unfortunately. Then again, I don't actually believe that the A4 shoots 30 bps either. I am more educated than that.

Yeah, we all know how "AGD guys think differently" and blah blah blah. I agree that the RTPro is extremely nice, and functional, and very well built. What I'm telling you is, it is a design that's over 10 years old, that hasn't been updated, and that is overpriced. I mean, there are very few mechanical markers out there in that price range, unless you check out Palmer's Pursuit Shop, and even then cheaper markers can be had. Also, say you're a fellow (the same guy) and you know know that the RTPro will function at a level equal to the best mechanical autocockers, and you go to the showroom with $800 to spend on the kick *** mechanical marker of your dreams, and on the wall you see this:
and this (which has looked the same for years, functioned the same for years, and has probably been sitting on the wall for years, because most shops don't have a great feel for selling AGD):


Which do YOU think he'd buy? My money rests with the Black Magic, and indeed, history is on my side. So yes, there is a market for a $750 mechanical, but it's increasingly narrow, and should be a price range reserved for the most custom, newest, greatest markers, not a 10 year old design with a couple of touch ups. (yes, I know the autococker's design has been around for a whle too, but the new Black Magic hardly resembles the older cockers)

Keep in mind that I own an Automag, and an Apple computer, so I know about the capital underdogs; I would just like to see them takes some steps that would move them back into the upper echelon of paintgun manufacturers.

[Nick O time]

well

i would have to buy the magbecause of it's simplicity and i think it looks hella nice. that isnt even a BM its a BM LE . And that is an old pic of the RTP because it now comes with XValve as stated before and also it will be coming with a ULE body and JandJ barrel(i think thats right) which has also been stated before.

[abaez]

$800 is agds retail price you can get it for 538 and actionvillage.

[no1beefcake]

Re: well

Originally posted by Nick O time
i would have to buy the magbecause of it's simplicity and i think it looks hella nice. that isnt even a BM its a BM LE . And that is an old pic of the RTP because it now comes with XValve as stated before and also it will be coming with a ULE body and JandJ barrel(i think thats right) which has also been stated before.

The X-valve changes its looks about....nada, and the ULE bodies and J&J barrels aren't on the RTPro in MY local store, don't know about your's.

[no1beefcake]

Originally posted by abaez
$800 is agds retail price you can get it for 538 and actionvillage.

My local shop sells stuff around list, so that doesn't apply here.

[personman]

Re: Re: Re: Re: ...

Originally posted by no1beefcake


Yeah, we all know how "AGD guys think differently" and blah blah blah. I agree that the RTPro is extremely nice, and functional, and very well built. What I'm telling you is, it is a design that's over 10 years old, that hasn't been updated, and that is overpriced.


So yes, there is a market for a $750 mechanical, but it's increasingly narrow, and should be a price range reserved for the most custom, newest, greatest markers, not a 10 year old design with a couple of touch ups. (yes, I know the autococker's design has been around for a whle too, but the new Black Magic hardly resembles the older cockers)

Um, excuse me, the ReTro design isnt over 10 years old. The retro came out in 1996 which is 7 years ago. Also, whats this about mags never being updated? Um, do you know what the 'levels are on a mag? Ever heard of level 10? That is not a minor upgrade. It probally is alot better than some of those silly upgrades for a cocker. The ULT is also a major upgrade. You say you realise the cocker design is even older than the ReTro. THEN WHY ARE YOU RIPPING ON THE RT PRO? The black magic cocker still functions like a cocker. And it is the same design. RT Pros are about 600, and already come with the xvalve and the intelliframe. When they come with the ULE body (which will be very soon) then they will be the best buy IMO for ~600-650. You can take your silly cocker but I will take my retromag which is faster, more reliable, and looks better IMO.

[no1beefcake]

Re: Re: Re: ...

Originally posted by RogueFactor
You are missing the boat beefcake. Not only is what you are asking for unrealistic, its impossible in an American-made product of the caliber of AGD's markers.



Go and do the research, the prices I have listed for those parts are standard retail, what the shops sell for...not AGD RETAIL.

As of right now, there isnt a single place I know of, shop or online store, that sells the ULE body for less than $145.

Here is AGD Store RETAIL:

Level 10: $85
I-Frame: $115
Parts: Sear: $15 Sear, Pin: $3, Field Strip Screw $8, Trigger Frame Screw: $1, SS Air Hose: $11, Female QD: $14, Male QD: $8, 90* Fitting-Unknown)-- $60
ULE Body: $145
ULE Rail: Doesnt exist. Standard Rail is $40 in the store. So an ULE rail will conservatively estimated in the AGD store will be $60.

Total for AGD RETAIL before Valve: $465.



Yep, and then you have the shops mark-up. You still wont get a $350 AGD marker with all the best technology.

AGD's store doesn't sell their products any cheaper than regular shops. All their doing is getting paid retail for what shops are paying whole sale. AGD's store has the same retail price as other pb shops.

Here is where your thinking is flawed. You arent going to get all the new technologies in an American-made product for $350.

I sure would like a Rolls Royce, hand made with all the best materials and newest technologies for the median price of standard 4-door sedan, but it just isnt going to happen.

That's where I disagree. I don't think that comparison is valid at all. I think what we're seeing is more like Ford vs. Chevy. If one of them kept the same body style for 15 years, and the other kept progressing in style and function, and then they were sold at the same price. I don't think that the RTPro could EVER be called the "Rolls Royce" of painguns. They're more like a utilitarian 1991 F-150, being sold at the same price (or higher!) than a new 2004 Chevy Z-71.

[madmatt151]

Re: Re: Re: Re: ...

I agree with this logic a bit, flash does sell. Most people who are cominginto the sport are going to want an electro, even if it is a Spyder. When they stay around a while and realize that they need or want a higher end marker, they will probably listen to those around them and lok at the nicest looking marker. I love my RT mag and all the mags I have had, but new people will buy what they are being told is the best, and more people are telling them that Mags are NOT the best. Based on looks alone, the cockers and such are better looking to a newer person. WE like the looks of the mags because we like mags. I think AGD should rethink those sight rails and such on the RT Pro and that foregrip. It looks almost tactical to a new person, whereas the BMs look wild and crazy. This is the flash that is attracting people.

Correct me if I am wrong, but youcan't get the RT Pros in any ther colors right? Except for the ULE bodies? But the other parts will still be black and nickel. Not too many choices. Another bad selling point.

Originally posted by no1beefcake


Yeah, we all know how "AGD guys think differently" and blah blah blah. I agree that the RTPro is extremely nice, and functional, and very well built. What I'm telling you is, it is a design that's over 10 years old, that hasn't been updated, and that is overpriced. I mean, there are very few mechanical markers out there in that price range, unless you check out Palmer's Pursuit Shop, and even then cheaper markers can be had. Also, say you're a fellow (the same guy) and you know know that the RTPro will function at a level equal to the best mechanical autocockers, and you go to the showroom with $800 to spend on the kick *** mechanical marker of your dreams, and on the wall you see this:
and this (which has looked the same for years, functioned the same for years, and has probably been sitting on the wall for years, because most shops don't have a great feel for selling AGD):


Which do YOU think he'd buy? My money rests with the Black Magic, and indeed, history is on my side. So yes, there is a market for a $750 mechanical, but it's increasingly narrow, and should be a price range reserved for the most custom, newest, greatest markers, not a 10 year old design with a couple of touch ups. (yes, I know the autococker's design has been around for a whle too, but the new Black Magic hardly resembles the older cockers)

Keep in mind that I own an Automag, and an Apple computer, so I know about the capital underdogs; I would just like to see them takes some steps that would move them back into the upper echelon of paintgun manufacturers.

[Marek]

Re: Re: well

Originally posted by no1beefcake
The X-valve changes its looks about....nada, and the ULE bodies and J&J barrels aren't on the RTPro in MY local store, don't know about your's.

Sorry buddy, I don't know any stores in Austin that carry RTPs. Constant Action is a joke, Pettys (which is not even in Austin) doesn't have any on his shelf, and Pball Mart has some sparce mag stuff, but not RTPs. They are barely starting to respect mag stuff now, even though they still think that AO ppl are cult members. (Which is arguable of course, but off the topic) Let alone, having the new RTPs that are just coming out.

I just got myself a new RTP with an X-Valve, and ULE body, and J&J barrel and yeah I would pick that over a Black Magik.

[afrankart]

Re: Re: Re: Re: ...

Originally posted by no1beefcake

I think what we're seeing is more like Ford vs. Chevy. If one of them kept the same body style for 15 years, and the other kept progressing in style and function, and then they were sold at the same price.

Tell me if you would then, how a cocker has progressed in function? As I recall, They were originally pumps, and were converted to cock themselves for semiautomatic operation. Has this changed one bit?

[madmatt151]

Well, if you are gonna make the comparison to Auto manufacturers, lets look at the "pony" cars from Chevy and Ford. Chevy has kept the same design for years, barely updates it, just the body. Ford however has updated the body and chassis, suspension etc. To save a long explanantion et's just look and see who has a car still around? Ford mustang. I was a loyal Camaro owner and put up with a lot of things because I liked them. But more and mre people bought Mustangs. Now there is no more Camaro/Firebird, and the mustang still sells well. GM would never budge on some complaints and suggestions, and now there is no more of the F bodies. SO the comparison is valid and I think may show a trend in any specialty market. Let's be real, a sports car and a paintball marker and specialty items, not necessities. Therefore, biases, opionions, heresay and ideas will come into play and affect sales. This is why the better product will NOT always win out. Chevy had a better engine, but the "other" things were not satisfying customers and that is also whatkept NEW customers from buying them. Each company Ford, Chevy, WGP and AGD have a loyal "base" of customers that will buy the product even if it was junk. But the key to success is getting new customers. This is where many companies fail. Just my long-winded $.02!

[no1beefcake]

Re: Re: Re: well

Originally posted by Marek


Sorry buddy, I don't know any stores in Austin that carry RTPs. Constant Action is a joke, Pettys (which is not even in Austin) doesn't have any on his shelf, and Pball Mart has some sparce mag stuff, but not RTPs. They are barely starting to respect mag stuff now, even though they still think that AO ppl are cult members. (Which is arguable of course, but off the topic) Let alone, having the new RTPs that are just coming out.

I just got myself a new RTP with an X-Valve, and ULE body, and J&J barrel and yeah I would pick that over a Black Magik.

Ok, let's change local shop to "EVERY SHOP I'VE EVER SEEN." I've only lived in ATX for a little over a year. Also, you help make my point: nobody is carrying Mag stuff because it doesn't freaking sell!!!