A marketing idea for AGD

[Marek]

First you say this.

I'm more likely to spend my 500 bucks on a nice, electro, fast Impulse, than add money to it to buy an outdated RTPro

Say overpriced then. Saying that it is out of date is far from the truth.

Then you say this.

Ok, let's change local shop to "EVERY SHOP I'VE EVER SEEN."

Then don't claim that they have RTPs at your local shop. And, in the previous post, you said that the RTPs at your local store didn't have an X-Valve, and a ULE body, etc. and now they don't even sell those things? Make up your mind.

These are just 2 examples that were directed to me about inconsistencies on your posts. If you have a point, it's being lost to me, and it seems others because your just grasping at straws. But fine, I will amuse you, since you are doing that to me.

So what that the design of the gun hasn't changed? Do you really need a new body every year to feel satisfied? Why, because the rest of the sport does this? So somehow this makes it better? It is barely starting to happen that new bodies and rails are being made for the mag, to help with the aesthetic side of the Mag. Does this help performance in any way? Nope, and most would hope that is the point of getting upgrades. But, we know that is not true in this sport.

Other companies are slowly moving over to making mag stuff and hopefully in time the number of companies will increase. WGP does not make all the aesthetic upgrades for a cocker, and why should we expect the same from AGD?

[RenagadeOfFunk]

...i think the whole mechanical x-valve, ule everything, and new barrel would sell...it would relieve people from buying mechanical MaGs and looking around for things...then they scould just pay and get it over with...i have my gun uled and stuff like that...i wish that it came in a pakage though now i had to sell all my left over parts...

[no1beefcake]

Originally posted by Marek
First you say this.



Say overpriced then. Saying that it is out of date is far from the truth.

Then you say this.



Then don't claim that they have RTPs at your local shop. And, in the previous post, you said that the RTPs at your local store didn't have an X-Valve, and a ULE body, etc. and now they don't even sell those things? Make up your mind.

These are just 2 examples that were directed to me about inconsistencies on your posts. If you have a point, it's being lost to me, and it seems others because your just grasping at straws. But fine, I will amuse you, since you are doing that to me.

So what that the design of the gun hasn't changed? Do you really need a new body every year to feel satisfied? Why, because the rest of the sport does this? So somehow this makes it better? It is barely starting to happen that new bodies and rails are being made for the mag, to help with the aesthetic side of the Mag. Does this help performance in any way? Nope, and most would hope that is the point of getting upgrades. But, we know that is not true in this sport.

Other companies are slowly moving over to making mag stuff and hopefully in time the number of companies will increase. WGP does not make all the aesthetic upgrades for a cocker, and why should we expect the same from AGD?

First of all, let's make this a little less personal. We're talking about ways AGD can improve its marketing, and yes, a new standard, stock body every decade or so would definitely help.

Secondly, to get one thing out of the way, Here is my primary Marker:

Yes, it is an old school, 10 pound chunk of stainless steel that isn't horribly accurate, or horribly fast, or horribly good looking, but I love it, and it doesn't break. The quality of AGD's products haven't been in question. To me, however, their lower end markers are just not competing in their demographic, and in order to be a successful company, you must have a bread-and-butter base product to sell a good quantity. Your sales chart should pyramid, with the most sales going to your cheapest marker, and tapering off with your most expensive.

Also, in paintball, we know that aethetics do, in fact, matter greatly. From the military styled Tippmanns to the racy Angels, all of the markers on the shelf appeal to a different type. I think AGDs goal should be to appeal to every level of consumer, from beginner, to intermediate, to pro.

Until AGD makes a base level, updated marker to replace the Classic 68, they're going to be disappointed with their sales. That is just the way it is. All arguments aside, I think that the past will show that innovation should start at the top, and filter down to the lower products. It doesn't cost AGD much (if any) more to put a Level 10 on a Classic Mag, instead of the current. And hell, why not make a stock barrel that is included, and that isn't horrible? Tippmann does it, WGP does it, why not AGD? I know it HAS to cost less to make the ULE body than the old SS honkers, so throw those on as well.

The company shouldn't have to rely on a $700 or $1300 paintgun to keep them afloat in the market, because the average paintballer isn't going to pass up all the GREAT markers in the 300-500 dollar range to get there. AGD enthusiasts? Yes. A guy looking for the best value for his hard earned dollar? No.

[Marek]

I think that the way things are progressing is slow, but at least progressing forward. New rails, new bodies, new improvements on performance will slowly (we all hope at least) move AGD from this bad image.

I believe they are phasing out the SS bodies in favor of the ULE ones. New milled Sluggos are being made from other companies as well, which is always a plus. I even recall hearing that KAPP wanted to try out a Sluggo. That would help improve the image of the mag. If there are more aesthetic upgrades for the mag from other companies, hopefully ppl will take notice. Yes, right now the classic 68 is the base model for AGD from way back when, but I don't think that is the plan for much longer. With the new low end rail and and a ULE, that would make for a nice looking base model gun.

Now, if we could just work on the ugly box that these guns come in, we are set.

[no1beefcake]

Honestly, I think the slug bodies are sexy, but I don't think they'll ever catch on beyond the Automag faithful, because of their price. At $150 for a blank, you can buy a Tippmann 98 and have change for that!

I think a barrel is a big deal too, especially for a beginner. Spending a couple hundred on a marker that you can't test fire when you get home isn't appealing. Hell, why not just throw a Crown Point in with the package?

[afrankart]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ...

Originally posted by no1beefcake


Yay, let's take a quote out of context, jackass. I stated that WGP has upgraded their base 'Cocker over the years gradually to improve it in these areas. I never compared their reliablity to that of a 'Mag, although in my experience, it's certainly comparable.

I am sorry about misreading your post. I was not intentionally trying to take anything you said out of context. I however, am not sorry that you feel so insecure in your opinions that you are reduced to getting upset and using elementary level name calling to convey your opinions.

[Marek]

Originally posted by no1beefcake
Honestly, I think the slug bodies are sexy, but I don't think they'll ever catch on beyond the Automag faithful, because of their price. At $150 for a blank, you can buy a Tippmann 98 and have change for that!

I think a barrel is a big deal too, especially for a beginner. Spending a couple hundred on a marker that you can't test fire when you get home isn't appealing. Hell, why not just throw a Crown Point in with the package?

True, but then again ppl do buy Autococker bodies for similar prices. I like the Slugs that are already machined, like the chord body rather than the ones where you have to machine yourself.

I wonder why they have barrels on minimags, but not on classics. Strange.

[TheGreyMage]

most of you children missed the point completly and those of you who didnt should have stopped argueing. first of all the gun could easily be sold for 350 with a ule body leval 10 classic valve and level 10. you get a break in price when you buy things bundled together. agd should include a barrel with their gun, like a j&j, even just a ceramic if they want to cut costs. its a great cheap barrel, and then you will have a complete gun wich sells for 350, not something that you have to peice together.

and rogue factor, only your first four bodies qualify for the arguement as they are the ones offered with the classic valve, the minimag level 7 is the same as the classic, and the level 7 has been around for quite some time, at least 7 or 8 years, i am not sure on the date. as is the foamiless bolt, as well as the grip frames on thier respected markers. it is a dated design that has been unchanged for a long time. this is truth, not a personal attack on you becuase you own one, or an opinion. 7 years is a very long time in a sport like paintball.

[no1beefcake]

Originally posted by Marek


True, but then again ppl do buy Autococker bodies for similar prices. I like the Slugs that are already machined, like the chord body rather than the ones where you have to machine yourself.

I wonder why they have barrels on minimags, but not on classics. Strange.

If you get the already machined bodies, then you're talking in the multi-hundreds of dollars. The blank being $150 bucks and ugly is bad enough, IMHO.

[no1beefcake]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ...

Originally posted by RogueFactor




First, lets show where you are mistaken, and where AGD has progressed over the last 15 years in style and fucntion...

Bodies:
1) SS Classic Feed Body
2) SS Automag Powerfeed body
3) SS MiniMag Powerfeed body
4) SS Minimag Centerfeed Body
5) SS Classic RT Body
6) SS RT Pro/E-mag Body
7) SS Hi-Rise Centerfeed RT Pro/E-mag Body
8) No-Rise SS RT Pro E-mag Body
9) Shockteck SFL Body
11) Pro-Team Aluminum Body
12) Aluminum Sluggo Body
13) ULE Vert Feed Body
14) ULE Warp Feed Body
15) X-Mag Non CNC body
16) XMag CNC Body

These do not even include The Festus Body, Extreme Depot Body, PBX Body, Nicad Body, or the IT Body.

Valves:
1) Automag Classic Valve Levels 1-7
2) MiniMag Classic Valve Levels 7
3) Classic RT Valve
4) Emag/RT Pro/RT Valve
5) XValve

Trigger Frames:
1) Metal Single Trigger
2) Carbon Fiber Single Trigger
3) Z-Grip Double Trigger
4) E-mag Hybrid Electronic/Mechanical
4) Intelliframe Double Trigger
5) Y-Grip Double Trigger

Bolts:
1) SS Long Nose
2) SS Short Nose
3) Foamie Bolt
4) SuperBolt 1
5) SuperBolt 2
6) Level 10

Rails
1) Automag/MiniMag Classic Rail
2) Classic RT Gas-thru rail
3) RT Pro Rail
4) E-mag Rail
5) E-mag ULE Rail
6) Soon to be released Automag/MiniMag ULE rail

Need I continue...?




I never said you said that. I said "It has been said". Maybe you should re-read my posts.

Again, you're wrong. Only two bodies, and one valve have been offered on a stock 'Mag from AGD. The rest will fit, yes, but you'd have to buy them separately, which would get expensive quickly., We aren't talking about what could fit on a 'Mag, we're talking about what sells on a stock 'Mag. Almost NONE of the things you listed have ever been offered on the base Automag.

[afrankart]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ...

Originally posted by no1beefcake


Again, you're wrong. Only two bodies, and one valve have been offered on a stock 'Mag from AGD. The rest will fit, yes, but you'd have to buy them separately, which would get expensive quickly., We aren't talking about what could fit on a 'Mag, we're talking about what sells on a stock 'Mag. Almost NONE of the things you listed have ever been offered on the base Automag.

I didn't think we were talking about mags from the past, I thought we were trying to come up with a new marketing strategy for AGD- I.E. a new entry level marker with a gew of their cosmetic upgrades. I am sick of the argueing, I wish I hadn't taken part of it earlier, and the subject of how much the classic has changed in the last xx years is becoming moot.

Oh, and Roguefactor, don't forget about the ULE e-mag triggerframe.

[Marek]

Originally posted by no1beefcake
If you get the already machined bodies, then you're talking in the multi-hundreds of dollars. The blank being $150 bucks and ugly is bad enough, IMHO.

Ppl buy new bodies all the time for cockers. This is nothing new. They pay multi-hundreds of dollars for milling or less weight or whatever. This is nothing new. If Kapp made a body for mags, and then Dye took notice, maybe there would be more cosmetic upgrades for the mag. Am I saying this is going to happen? Don't know, but that would sure be nice if it did.

[xatle]

looks to me like the bottom end stock classic is about to get a pretty serious makeover anyways, why else would TK be asking for opinions on cosmetics for a low end rail?
agd will probably continue to phase out twist lock barrels with the success of the c&c and ule bodies, that means we can expect the next incarnation of the basic stock mag to have an unpolished black anodized ule body.
intelliframes require to much milling so the carbon fiber frames will probably survive to the next generation, but perhaps it will be a two finger trigger version with an aluminum blade trigger and a spot to mount a microswitch.
the valve is a problem, its a good idea not to alienate your consumers who still use co2 so the current rt style reg isnt the ticket, but the ult is a piece of tech that shouldnt be left out so just makeing a classic valve out of aluminum isnt the best plan either, we'll have to wait and see what the r&d folks come up with for that.
lvl 10's, an improved stock barrel, verticle bottle adapters, and all the bodies will be verticle feed.
sell the whole package for a little more than $300 and you have competitive low end mag again, hows that sound?

[thei3ug]

you know, beefcake posted this on another message board, and being something of a fringe member of the AO cult I decided finally to click it and read how he "picked a fight" for the heck of it and got attacked by the so-called agd cult.

and you wanna know something? It's sick, because he brings up some real valid points, something I'd NEVER admit to on the other board I see him on , and a lot of you turned it into a shouting match, or started playing with semantics to twist his point around. Real professional. Real intelligent.

I thought the "cult" tag was an inside joke, now I understand. People believe it, and this thread is an example why.

[LittlePaintballBoy]

Because we... like our guns and stand by AGD? Go to impulse owners and say "Impulses suck they never been changed" I know Imps have been greatly changed, but mags have been changed just as much. Or go to Intimidator owners and say "Timmies suck, they've never been changed" Actually, that's more true than you think, all that has really changed on them is milling and a gripframe or two. (No disrespect intended to either gun owners) But everyone bys timmies. Why? Because it's fast and has cool milling. Sure, they're CAPABLE of 25 bps, but has anyone ever gotten one that fast on semi-auto? Even with bounce? The WAS board is very fast, not too much can make it faster, but if your fingers aren't that fast whats the point? I have seen people RIP with Vikings And Timmies with WAS boards, but not at over 20 BPS or so. So, why haven't Mags changed alot? I think it is because there isn't anything more you can do to them. Same with Timmies and Vikings. Ther just is not enough room for real improvement.


Connor