A marketing idea for AGD

[no1beefcake]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ...

Originally posted by RogueFactor


Youre right, AGD doesnt sell them cheaper---they arent supposed to. Manufactueres dont attempt to compete with their dealers. Its common pratice not to.

But you suggested that my original prices were AGD retail. You were incorrect.

My point still stands that the prices you were adding up were individual retail prices for pieces of the puzzle. Again, for an automotive analogy, it would cost you thousands of dollars more to buy a car piece by piece from your dealer, and assemble it yourself. AGD has been finished with the R&D of the Automag for a long time, and need to find a way to get the 'Mag out, in a complete package, for a reasonable price.

Please make this analogy to current markers....

Which one kept the same body style for 15 years?
Which *other* marker kept progressing?(in style & function)

Well, if I'm not mistaken, the Classic 'Mag has remained almost the EXaCT same since it's introduction in the very early 90s (1991?). There has been a slight update/change to the autocockers, as well as multiple colors/intermediate models, almost every year since they've been around (again since the early/mid 90s)

It has been stated that there have beeon only 2 companies in this industry that make markers and are still around from the beginning(15 years approximately). So I would like to hear who you think has been around as long as AGD and has done what you say.

I never said that there have only been 2 companies that made markers in the beginning and are still around. Maybe you should re-read my posts. And by "done what I say," what exactly do you mean?

[no1beefcake]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ...

Originally posted by afrankart


Tell me if you would then, how a cocker has progressed in function? As I recall, They were originally pumps, and were converted to cock themselves for semiautomatic operation. Has this changed one bit?

Well, of course their basic operation has remained the same, but there has been gradual and steady progress over their lifespan that makes the 'Cockers more reliable, perform to a higher level, and look much better. There has been none of that with the 'Mags.

[personman]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ...

Originally posted by no1beefcake
There has been none of that with the 'Mags.

HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AH AH AH HA
LMAO ROFL!!!!!

[no1beefcake]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ...

Originally posted by personman

HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AH AH AH HA
LMAO ROFL!!!!!

Alright wise guy, show me how this is different than it was 5 or 6 years ago:

[afrankart]

I guess the ULE, X-valve, Y-grip, and the up and coming AGD rail don't do anything for the appearance of their markers. I also guess that the ULT and the level 10 don't do anything for Mag's performance either. I have had plenty of experience with both cockers and mags, I have never known 1 cocker to be more reliable than ANY mag. Also, while you're on a roll, tell me how a mechanical cocker fully tricked out performs any better than a fully tricked mechanical mag. If you can...

[personman]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ...

Originally posted by no1beefcake


Alright wise guy, show me how this is different than it was 5 or 6 years ago:

The only thing that is the same is the shape and the rail bro

[afrankart]

Oh, by the way, I had a cocker and a mag at the same time for about a year. Guess which one I still have, and play with every weekend WITHOUT any reliability problems. For a hint, check my sig. Also, I think it is slightly unfair to compare a Black magic LE to a standard feed classic. You could buy like 3 classics for the price of that black magic.

[no1beefcake]

Originally posted by afrankart
I guess the ULE, X-valve, Y-grip, and the up and coming AGD rail don't do anything for the appearance of their markers. I also guess that the ULT and the level 10 don't do anything for Mag's performance either. I have had plenty of experience with both cockers and mags, I have never known 1 cocker to be more reliable than ANY mag. Also, while you're on a roll, tell me how a mechanical cocker fully tricked out performs any better than a fully tricked mechanical mag. If you can...

Show me a stock 'Mag that can be had with all of those options you mentioned! Also, the level 10 is great, but by the time you buy a stock 'Mag, and stick one of those on it, you have a $350 gun that looks the same as it has for 10 years, and that still can't even be fired, because it doesn't have a frickin' barrel.

Also, before you start rolling your eyes, read the other posts in the thread. Nobody ever said that 'Cockers outperformed, or were any more reliable than the Automag. That isn't even the discussion. We're talking about ways AGD can improve its marketing, to try and compete with Kingman, Tippmann, WGP, and the like for new customers.

As far as performance, the only thing that a tricked out 'Cocker has on a tricked out 'Mag is looks, and possibly efficiency.

[Marek]

Re: Re: Re: Re: well

Originally posted by no1beefcake
Ok, let's change local shop to "EVERY SHOP I'VE EVER SEEN." I've only lived in ATX for a little over a year. Also, you help make my point: nobody is carrying Mag stuff because it doesn't freaking sell!!!

You should go out more often then. So, on your basis, spyders are the best guns out there, cuz I've seen them at every store. Wait, Wal-Mart has BE, so Kingman and BE are the great marker makers that Roguefactor was talking about. These guns sell a hell of a lot more guns than Mags or Cockers.

My original post, which was in reference to your original post, was asking how the rt valve is outdated. You have not answered the question, but rather, give an opinion about how the Black Magik looks cooler and blah blah blah. If the valve is "outdated" then why do they use it on the X-Mag? Even then, with Lvl 10 and the ULT, the basic design has changed from its original design. Not everything in this sport has to be about looks or hype.

If you were to put a new RTP and an Orracle next to each other, and ask a completely unbiased stranger, my guess would be that the person would go for the Orracle. That is not in question. Yea, it does look better. But, to say that the RTP couldn't "keep up" or surpass the Orracle is off.

[afrankart]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ...

Originally posted by no1beefcake


'Cockers more reliable, perform to a higher level, and look much better. There has been none of that with the 'Mags.

Before you criticize me for not reading this thread, how about you read what YOU posted.

[Bonez]

Keep up the good work

Thank you all for the continuation of the open discussion on this.

From what I've heard so far there is a great deal of pride in owning an Automag, and I feel it owning one myself.

But in helping AGD grow in sales, we help them get more money for R&D and that leads to new inventions like the Level 10 and the ULE's.

I think I'd feel even better if something we did help the company grow, such as offering suggestions on new marketing ideas and discussing them openly and fairly on Automags.org.

But hey, that's just me.

-Hal

[no1beefcake]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ...

Originally posted by afrankart


Before you criticize me for not reading this thread, how about you read what YOU posted.

Yay, let's take a quote out of context, jackass. I stated that WGP has upgraded their base 'Cocker over the years gradually to improve it in these areas. I never compared their reliablity to that of a 'Mag, although in my experience, it's certainly comparable.

[afrankart]

Alright, I do have alot of pride in being one of the very few people I have seen play with a mag. The only improvement that I can think of would be one for efficiency. I don't mind the efficiency I get, but it could be improved upon. IMHO, my mag is PERFECT for me.

[no1beefcake]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: well

Originally posted by Marek


You should go out more often then. So, on your basis, spyders are the best guns out there, cuz I've seen them at every store. Wait, Wal-Mart has BE, so Kingman and BE are the great marker makers that Roguefactor was talking about. These guns sell a hell of a lot more guns than Mags or Cockers.

Nobody ever questioned what was "the best gun out there," and if you would pay attention, this thread is about marketing, not overall sales. First off, you have to realize that Kingman isn't AGD's main competition; WGP is.

My original post, which was in reference to your original post, was asking how the rt valve is outdated. You have not answered the question, but rather, give an opinion about how the Black Magik looks cooler and blah blah blah. If the valve is "outdated" then why do they use it on the X-Mag? Even then, with Lvl 10 and the ULT, the basic design has changed from its original design. Not everything in this sport has to be about looks or hype.

I think you're still missing the point. I wasn't commenting that the actual mechanical aspects of the marker were out of date. They are, however, overpriced. Also, the ULT and Lvl 10 are recent additions that are only included in the upper level mechanical RTPro, that is, like it or not, in a price range that competes with some VERY nice electro guns, while AGD's own electro is in the upper stratosphere of that market, too.

If you were to put a new RTP and an Orracle next to each other, and ask a completely unbiased stranger, my guess would be that the person would go for the Orracle. That is not in question. Yea, it does look better. But, to say that the RTP couldn't "keep up" or surpass the Orracle is off.

I never said that the RTPro couldn't keep up with the Orracle (or Black Magic, or whatever), but with similar function and similar pricing, the 'Mag is going to have to do SOMETHING to make it the go-to product, and refusing to update the aesthetics of its marker isn't going to do it.

[no1beefcake]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ...

Originally posted by personman

The only thing that is the same is the shape and the rail bro

The gun is almost exactly the same (in classic form, from a shop) as it has been for years, with maybe a slight change in the engraving on the AIR valve. Yes, the picture you posted is a nice, customized 'Mag, but you can't buy that in the store, except piece by piece.