WAS proclaims VIKING = FASTEST MARKER AVAILABLE @ 40 CPS stock! (no video)

[jdev]

Originally posted by Jack & Coke
My conclusion: AO has caught the PBN.

that right there, is the awesome..

sigged

[Steelrat]

No, AO has not caught the PBN. Unfortuately, AO is proving all those accustions that are made about it on PBN.

[GT]

Originally posted by Jack & Coke
People who are trustworthy of honest unbiased opinions

It appears I may have been wrong.

a few jock riders start crying

My conclusion: AO has caught the PBN.

[Jack & Coke]

Dude, how many times are you going to keep repeating yourself?

If you don't like "how" I expose unproven hype, you don't have to read my posts.

PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF HUMANITY...

Just move along and try to resist any further temptations to clutter this thread with non-relevant personal flame baiting attempts...

[pbjosh]

Sheesh-

I did easily hit 36cps on Don's (from 'Modified Paintball') Morlock powered Viking, and that time produced a full power shot, (280fps when fired in SemiAuto) and allowed for a full return on the bolt/ram.

If I hadn't of ran out of air I may have been able to run it at 40cps and still had a full power shot. The ON time was really really low, about 15ms. It did cycle at 8ms, but I don't know the velocity. The ram pressure was light enough that I could put my finger in the breech and not hurt it.

From my experience, I have thought the Viking was one of the fastest markers for quite a while.

40cps should be easy, but remember, you will never cycle that fast, and anything above 15bps will only be shot by the few, and rarely in a 'real world' setting. So why are you arguing about it?

Josh

[TheGreatPru]

aaarrrrrrrrrggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ! ! ! !

somebody needs to define a "cycle" before we can start to mesure CPS. depending on whos definition you use there could be a wide varity of values for CPS.

for example, on an autococker or excal i define a cycle as 'shoot, wait, open, close'. i have my eblade timed (w/o the eye obviously) to shoot at 23 CPS, but thats becuase i have the wait time to only 1 ms so there is blow back, and the bolt will not stay open long enough to load paint. it does however compleate each cycle, becuase every time i pull the trigger it shoots (valve opens) the bolt goes all the way back so the sear catches the lug so it can be shot again, and the bolt closes all the way before the next shot. i know this becuase i minimized the trigger filters, and set up the trigger to be ultra bouncy and let it bounce. if i timed the cycle to short, the sear would not catch, or the bolt would not go all the way closed before the next shot (tested by weather or not the back block slaped the body or not). so it was doing a good 23 CPS, as close to full auto as i could get it. loading paint was out of the question though, but it did do a compleate cycle EVERY time.

on an electro pnematic ram-bolt, i would define a cycle as differnt though. one cylce being that the ram moves forward to open the valve (how long is a differnt story) and returning to the fully opened (rest) position. to me, thats a cycle.

once you start adding in dwell times to make sure the valve is open long enough to reach 300 fps at the operating pressure that the gun was designed to be run at, cycle times will change drastically. changing a 25ms cycle time (at 40CPS, the cycle time is 25ms), increased by 10ms will change into 28 CPS, where as if you decrease it by 10ms you would get 66 CPS

now, taking that into consideration, i am pretty sure that Jim said he liked the older mac 'noids even though they needed a longer dwell time, which means that if a test value of only 5ms dwell will indeed open the valve, he would have to add 10ms to get back to normal dwell (15-ish) for a viking with mac noids. so 40 CPS at 5ms dwell, + 10ms for 'real world' dwell would be 28 CPS, and guess what, now all of the sudden it seems like a lot more reasonable number huh . . .

i am not saying that jims claims are true, and for the record, i dont have one of his boards in my viking. what i am saying is that depending on how you manipulate your numbers, it COULD be true. if you dont understand, i will be glad to post some non-paintball stats which should help raise the comprehension level.

IMPORTANT PART :
so, before anybody else gets all pissy, define what it is that you are actually arguing about, find out if thats the same thing that Jim claims, and then have your discussion. (and once you do, do it in a ciilized manner befitting of AO -> wise man once said "sarcasim is the tool of a week mind")

on a personal note : man is this thread been annoying, grow up !!

[pbjosh]

Okay-

For timing issues, I was setting up a Morlock Board, which was set in Single Soleniod mode. The On time was 15ms (12 worked just as well, IIRC, but I didn't lower the total cycle time. 8ms might have had a low velocity, but the gun did cycle) and the Total cycle time (time between each cycle) was 28ms.

Or, 35.7 signals/cycles per second was sent from the board. The solenoid was on for 15ms, and off for 13ms. In Full Auto the gun cycled without a mishap. In Semi I could easily fire at a consistant 280-285. The bolt returned fully far enough back that you could see it open all the way (by looking into the feedneck.)

Hence, a FULL cycle, including a FULL velocity shot, was obtained. At 36cps. By me. I am not selling anything viking related, nore am I sponcered or otherwise. Just a guy tinkering in his backyard.

Mind you, this is a Morlock board. No 'bounce filter' or otherwise, just a straight forward per shot and cycle in FA.

Josh

[Jack & Coke]

Re: aaarrrrrrrrrggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ! ! ! !

Originally posted by TheGreatPru


...wise man once said "sarcasim is the tool of a week mind"

[Jack & Coke]

All joking aside... TheGreatPru and pbjosh, thanks for your constructive and informative posts regarding the cycling times of the Morlock in your guns.

Although these are not stock conditions, they do illustrate great performance potential. I wonder what the difference is between programmed time settings and actual recorded test numbers...

Also, wouldn't the bolt cycle speed be faster if there were higher pressure pushing back and forth? If that's the case, then wouldn't a "high operating pressure" setup be faster than a "low operating pressure" setup? BTW, what is the operating pressure of a stock Viking?

[afrankart]

I beleive the sidewinder takes it down to 180-200psi. Then the LPR takes it down more, to 85psi stock. There is some speculation going on at the AKA forum on pbnation that turning the LPR up will infact make the internals cycle faster. Of course by doing this, they will be much more prone to chopping, however not if the eyes do their job.

[Jack & Coke]

So if you had a top of the line ACE system, would there still be a need for a LPR? Would the noid be able to handle the pressure coming out of the main in-line?

[afrankart]

This I don't know for sure. I do know that AKA said somewhere that a LPR output greater than 115 can cause potential damage to the solenoid. 72psi seems to be the optimal operating pressure. Although I am pretty sure that it is not optimal for yeilding 40cps results.

[pbjosh]

"Although these are not stock conditions"

ehm,*cough*, short of the morlock, the gun was completely stock. The circuit board, since all it does is send a jolt of power, really didn't affect anything too much. As long at the board design doesn't completely suck, there should be no difference in the mechanical action of the gun based on which board used.

There was shoot down, but that was due to the HPA tank being low on air. At that speed, I basicly was happy to have shot the gun so fast!

As for the gun cycling faster at higher pressure, that how we first got cockers to 20bps. HP means the solenoid cycles faster, the ram gets air faster, and has more force to move it, so, yes, the ROF/CPS is increased with higher LPR pressure.

Josh

[afrankart]

Originally posted by pbjosh
[BAs for the gun cycling faster at higher pressure, that how we first got cockers to 20bps. HP means the solenoid cycles faster, the ram gets air faster, and has more force to move it, so, yes, the ROF/CPS is increased with higher LPR pressure.[/B]

Not only would it get the internals moving faster, but I would assume that at a higher psi, you could reduce the dwell time a few ms due to more pressure pushing the ball. This in itself would help speed up the cycling time.

[jdev]

Re: WAS proclaims VIKING = FASTEST MARKER AVAILABLE @ 40 CPS stock! (no video)

Originally posted by Jack & Coke
All you AO Viking owers, did you know your stock Vikings can do 40 CPS?

Can someone please record a video clip of their stock Viking doing 40 cps?

Thanks [/B]

I do now:

http://pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=361344

that is froth from the AKA forums @ PBN. trigger guru extrodinaire. doesnt come to 40 exactly, comes to 39.7 according to him. but, because the fda can call stuff fat free if it contains less than 2% of the daily allowance or something like that.. i suppose you can call this 40 easily.

enjoy.